[Spellyans] Diacritics and their necessity

Craig Weatherhill craig at agantavas.org
Tue Feb 1 20:11:17 GMT 2011


I didn't add that KS is certainly the best available orthography for  
Cornish.  I did (and do) prefer KS1 as it was unfettered by the  
demands of the SWF.

Craig



On 1 Whe 2011, at 20:06, Michael Everson wrote:

> On 1 Feb 2011, at 19:06, Eddie Climo wrote:
>
>> No, Michael. You may have proposed those things in 2008, but they  
>> were never ratified by the membership of Spellyans.
>
> Spellyans no process for "ratification" and we never did in  
> UdnFormScrefys either. What we have is a sense of general consensus  
> of linguists and non-linguists, and decisions taken by the editors.  
> The editors have had a mandate an the confidence of both  
> UdnFormScrefys and Spellyans because of the care and expertise they  
> have taken with this material.
>
> I hear several people whose knowledge of linguistics and in  
> particular phonology I respect saying that they are satisfied with  
> KS, warts and all. It may not be perfect, but it is the best  
> orthography yet designed for Cornish, as several people have said  
> today.
>
> Your proposals aim to make it an unstable and therefore inferior  
> orthography. Your proposal will not be accepted, because they go  
> against the entire effort we have been engaging in since 2006. I am  
> sorry if this grieves you, but you are not making any kind of case  
> that would lead.
>
>> Until that process has been undertaken by a vote taken after full  
>> discussion, there is no KS; there is only a proposal for what you  
>> think KS ought to be.
>
> Alys in Pow an Anethow, Adro dhe'n Bÿs in Peswar Ugans Dëdh, Kensa  
> Lyver Redya, Jowal Lethesow, Skeul an Tavas, Devocyon an Greryow,  
> and Enys Tresour ALL of them use the same orthography. This is an  
> implemented orthography. It is not a "proposal". It has not been a  
> "proposal" since Alys was published in January 2009 -- six months  
> after your proposal to make diacritical marks "optional" failed to  
> attract consensus.
>
> If Nicholas or Jon or Christian or Neil or Dan or Owen or I had  
> thought that it was a good idea to have an orthography where the  
> rules of spelling could be ignored in "ordinary published material  
> for the more fluent user of Cornish" (as you said in July 2008) then  
> that idea would have had support 2008.
>
> But wasn't a good idea. Indeed it is an unprecedented idea, to have  
> an orthography with such options in it. No other Celtic language has  
> such rules. No Germanic language has such rules. No Romance or  
> Slavic language has such rules. And your assertion that "Cornish is  
> different" does not convince me by any means that Cornish should be  
> different in this regard.
>
> You may, if you wish, reject KS utterly. But you should not be  
> surprised if we resist your suggestion that we hamstring the best  
> and most accurate orthography ever designed for Cornish by making  
> its optimization and accuracy *optional*. I regret, very much,  
> Eddie, that I have to defend KS against the suggestions you are  
> making -- but the suggestions you are making would *damage* KS by  
> making it an unreliable orthography.
>
>> Neither Michael nor Nicholas nor any other individuals in this  
>> group are empowered to decide unilaterally what KS will be.
>
> Are you "empowered" to "unilaterally" decided to open closed issued  
> because you disagree with them? And even now that you have tried to  
> open it, and you have got push-back. We even re-visited the decision  
> to use ë/ÿ instead of ê/ŷ -- and we got the same result, for the  
> same technical and practical reasons.
>
>> Only the membership of this group can do so. If that were not so,  
>> then this whole UdnFormScrefys and Spellyans process has been a  
>> sham, a mere talking shop.
>
> Diacritical marks were also mandated in KS1. Indeed in much stronger  
> language than our recommendation now, that diacritical marks are  
> important and should be learned as a proper part of the words which  
> have them.
>
>> Dres ethom akennow byner re bo lyeshes
>> Accenti non multiplicandi praeter necessitatem
>
> The accents used in KS are, as it happens, necessary. Each one that  
> is used has a specific linguistic rationale.
>
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
>
>
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--
Craig Weatherhill





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