[Spellyans] dictionnaire de l'Académie française
craig at agantavas.org
Sun Jan 30 18:24:16 GMT 2011
"Self-learning", that is.
On 30 Gen 2011, at 18:00, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
> I note that KD also had diacritical marks, but no one commented or
> objected. I'm used to them. Jenner used them, and they're visible
> (usually only circumflexes) on maps and signposts. I think they
> have a useful part to play, but can they be minimised further in
> KS? In the end, it isn't Michael, Nicholas or any of us who are
> going to enforce their use. Individuals will make up their own
> minds whether to use them or not, no matter what anyone says.
> I also preferred KS1 and I also wonder if we shouldn't consider
> returning to it. I am fast losing faith in the SWF, with various
> agreements being broken, and I know that others (notably Jonathan
> Kereve-Clark) have already abandoned it. I honestly think that
> things are being set up for a pre-arranged fait accompli in 2013. I
> really don't see that we should follow the SWF any more, but revert
> to a purer Cornish.
> Can we see an end to something else, as well? When someone has been
> self-earning Cornish for only 2 years, publicised criticism of their
> work, in order to belittle them, is the quickest way to alienate
> them from the language completely. I was deeply disappointed to see
> that. Please don't do it.
> On 30 Gen 2011, at 17:36, Herbie Blackburn wrote:
>> This seems a very sensible and well thought out position – I think
>> it is a balanced and practical stance, that maybe most could agree
>> Andrew wrote:
>> Here are my views, as requested:
>> — Should the diacritics in KS be mandatory in all writings?
>> Diacritical marks should not be mandatory. Who is going to enforce
>> their use? KS may dictate that diacritical marks are always used
>> whenever possible but it may be better to use KS without
>> diacritical marks than to use the current SWF. People should be
>> free to do so without being criticised. The quality of the Cornish
>> and the meaning of what is written is much more important.
>> Diacritical marks make KS more difficult to write but easier to
>> read. Either way it is still Cornish, and still a very big
>> improvement on the SWF (Main), and still an improvement on the SWF
>> — Should they be optional in all writings?
>> No, dictionaries and the like should always include the diacritical
>> marks so that people who wish to use them will know where they
>> should go.
>> — Should they be hightly recommented in lexicographic/reference/
>> didactic writings and optional elsewhere?
>> No, if diacritical marks are part of the KS specification, they
>> must be used in all lexicographic/reference/didactic writings that
>> purport to be KS, so that people who wish to use them will know
>> where they should go. I think that they need to be optional
>> elsewhere. Some people (and their technologies) are against their
>> use, can’t or won’t use them. We don’t want people to use KK or the
>> SWF (Main) instead. I think that we can safely claim that they are
>> “incorrect Cornish”. We have sufficient evidence to back up that
>> statement. I don’t think that we should use stronger words. We
>> should try to keep out of the gutter.
>> — Or should they have some other role?
>> I’m not sure what sort of rôles you had on mind. The diacritical
>> marks help the reader to distinguish KS from other forms of
>> Cornish, e.g. the SWF (Traditional) with which it could otherwise
>> be confused. Diacritical marks make the language more precise. That
>> would help in automatic translation from Cornish to other languages
>> (or to other forms of Cornish), and would help automatic text-to-
>> speech readers for the poorly-sighted or drivers, etc.
>> — Furthermore, do we currently have a surfeit of diacritics? Could
>> we idealy do with fewer of them?
>> As long as the diacritical marks are optional, it does not really
>> matter – just leave off the ones you don’t agree with. If they are
>> “compulsory” I should like to see less. I do not think that it is
>> necessary to mark êw/ôw. I do not like ë/ÿ. I would prefer to spell
>> this ei, e.g. beis “world”. I do not like ù. I would prefer to
>> spell this v, e.g. lvst “lust”, arlvth “lord”, pvbonan “everyone”.
>> I hope that the above has answered your questions, and that it will
>> help to form a consensus.
>> Andrew J. Trim
>> Spellyans mailing list
>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
> Craig Weatherhill
> Spellyans mailing list
> Spellyans at kernowek.net
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