[Spellyans] gawas 'to get'

A. J. Trim ajtrim at msn.com
Thu Sep 8 12:04:31 BST 2011

I assume that the "Highways" ban prevents the use of diacritical marks too - 
so no «Chûn» for example.


Andrew J. Trim

-----Original Message----- 
From: Craig Weatherhill
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 11:24 AM
To: Standard Cornish discussion list
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] gawas 'to get'

The dumbing process is even worse than that.  We have problems on the
Signage Panel because Highways (following a precedent started in the
USA [surprise!], and taken on by several British councils) have banned
superscript symbols on road signs.  That ridiculous policy includes
(or rather excludes) apostrophes.

We can't recommend things like For'eglos ('churchway') in West
Cornwall, or use Mene' to abbreviate *menydh (SWF).  We debated using
Por' for Par, but this edict means we can't, and gives us no choice
but Porth.

Translation becomes all but impossible.  For example:  "Robins Hill" -
is this "hill of a robin", "hill of several robins", or "hill named
after a person called Robin"?


PS - We haven't come to Camborne yet, and that's going to be a real
problem, as two spellings have emerged from a 15th century document
held in the the Records Office.  In this, the same scribe spells:
Kambron and Kambronn.  Ye Gods, that's all I needed!!!!

On 8 Gwn 2011, at 11:04, Ray Chubb wrote:

> Yes I can see that there is a historical precedent for it.  My main 
> objection to the current trend in revived Cornish is the apparent  view 
> that we must 'dumb down'.  As I said, is it really so difficult  to 
> remember to give final 'f' a 'v' sound?
> I suppose it is all part of a general dumbing down in society.  The 
> popularity of Samba bands because people can't be bothered to learn  a 
> real instrument, church music, dumbed down English in Bible  translations, 
> road markings to tell us what any driver with common  sense can see with 
> his own eyes, the list is endless.
> On 8 Gwn 2011, at 10:35, nicholas williams wrote:
>> I didn't at first really like final <v>.
>> If we take all those words which in CW and elsewhere end in <ve> we 
>> find, inter alia,
>> gwave 'winter'
>> have 'summer'
>> eve 'he, him'
>> creve 'strong'
>> neve 'heaven'
>> preve 'worm, reptile'
>> ove 'I am'
>> gove 'smith'.
>> We don't however use final silent -e, since that is a spelling 
>> convention derived from English. If we remove
>> the silent -e from these items, they become gwav, hav, ev, crev,  nev, 
>> prev, ov and gov, the recommended KS forms.
>> Although they don't look like MC gwaf, haf, ef, cref, etc. they do  have 
>> the merit of making clear
>> that the final segment is [v] rather than [f]. This avoids 
>> mispronunciations like me yw *goff hag yth *off *creff.
>> Spellings like hav, gwav, prev etc. also make the spelling
>> easier for those used to a LC orthography.
>> They cannot be called untraditional because sporadic spelling like  ev 
>> 'he', ov 'am' occur even in MC and CW:
>> ev yv pen cok RD 2017
>> mabe Jared yth ov heb gowe CW 2096
>> Nicholas
>> On 2011 Gwn 8, at 09:31, Ray Chubb wrote:
>>>> Ray, what you don’t like is the ‘look’ of final <dh> and <v>,
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> Ray Chubb
> Portreth
> Kernow
>   Agan Tavas web site:  www.agantavas.com
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Craig Weatherhill

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