[Spellyans] SWF (t) and Maga web site

Craig Weatherhill craig at agantavas.org
Wed Aug 8 12:10:52 IST 2012


I can do so, Ken, but it's an ongoing list and far from complete.

Craig



On 8 Est 2012, at 10:02, Ken MacKinnon wrote:

> Craig,
>
> It would be very useful to publish this list.
>
> Even more useful would be an actual map.
>
> -        An ken Ken
>
> From: spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net 
> ] On Behalf Of Craig Weatherhill
> Sent: 07 August 2012 12:04
> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] SWF (t) and Maga web site
>
> As you all know, I've been worried about the apparent sidelining of  
> traditional Cornish ever since 2008.
>
> I currently advise the Signage Panel, and concern myself mainly with  
> historic place-names, mostly in an attempt to limit damage done in  
> the past (and which might be carried through) through insufficient  
> research.
>
> Obviously, this has to be done within the confines of the SWF but  
> one significant place-name was decided by the Partnership, and not  
> the Panel, and what they approved was not an SWF spelling (I think  
> we all know which place-name this is).  I was, and still am, angry  
> about this because, not only is the Partnership entirely unqualified  
> to comment or decide upon place-names, but also because members of  
> the Panel were close to agreeing a compromise form in which non-trad  
> users lose a letter, and trad. users gain a letter.  My list,  
> mentioned below, derogates from the Partnership's unacceptable  
> decision, and gives the compromise form we were so close to agreeing  
> before the matter was taken out of our hands.
>
> When the Panel was founded, its membership was well balanced between  
> users of traditional and non-traditional Cornish:  now, the only  
> voice for traditional Cornish connected with the Panel is me.   
> Nevertheless, the Panel members do work together quite well.
>
> The Panel has so far decided upon about 300 historic place-names.   
> Bearing in mind that we are restricted to the confines of the SWF, I  
> am quite happy to agree with all bar 16 of these.  I question 12 of  
> them to varying degrees;  the other 4 (including the example cited  
> above) I absolutely oppose.  Overall that isn't too bad.
>
> However, the master list is being kept only in the Main Form SWF.   
> So, to counter yet another sidelining of traditional Cornish, I am  
> maintaining a parallel list which presents the agreed names in both  
> main form and traditional graphs.
>
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7 Est 2012, at 11:28, Ray Chubb wrote:
>
>
> Jenefer, I think you are beginning to sound like a gramophone record  
> stuck in the grove.
>
> We all know what the Treyarnon agreement was, the point that I have  
> been making on this forum is that the Partnership is a public body  
> representing Cornish and the whole of the Cornish language movement  
> but since the removal of the SWF (t) glossary from the web site  
> there is no indication at all of what native Cornish looks like.   
> The (t) glossary was in fact a very poor indication of traditional  
> spelling but at least it was something.
>
> How can the Partnership accept public money when it represents only  
> those who think that it is O.K. to tinker wholesale with native  
> forms of Cornish?
>
> I shall certainly be making representations at the next Partnership  
> meeting to have a page on the web site dedicated to show what  
> various orthographies look like including those of native writers.   
> If I am outvoted as I usually am by the politicians on the  
> Partnership, (including the ones who speak Cornish) I shall take the  
> matter up with Cornwall Councillors.
>
> On 7 Est 2012, at 10:00, Lowe Jenefer wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> I am away working at an event in Brittany at the moment and  
> therefore only infrequently checking email.  However, I feel I must  
> just set the record straight. My position and that of MAGA is to  
> work to the agreements made unless and until those change in any  
> way, via the review. I have sent out the attached document, produced  
> by the AHG as part of the agreement and spec, many times, but it  
> continues to be ignored. It has always also been available on the  
> website along with the spec. It sets out clearly what was agreed on  
> variants and on traditional graphs and it is that agreement to which  
> we adhere. The agreement put traditional graphs in place for those  
> who wish to use them, but was emphatic that this did not create  
> another 'form' - it wasn't a case of use all or nothing of the  
> traditional graphs. I think the paper makes the position at the  
> moment absolutely clear. That is why we are not looking at a  
> dictionary with traditional forms but explaining the alternatives  
> available within the one dictionary. The online dictionary will  
> enable searches for traditional graph spellings and should be  
> available, once a couple of technical issues are resolved.
>
> We are very happy to accept traditional graphs in use - in  
> newsletter articles for example, but it was never the case that they  
> would be used officially and we have to stick to the agreements made.
>
> Michael is right - SWF is not KK, the basis is different and we do  
> need to keep aesthetic and linguistic points apart. This is exactly  
> why the agreement at Treyarnon separated out the linguistic variants  
> catered for by the Middle and Late variants from the aesthetic  
> considerations represented by the traditional graphs. Trond was very  
> clear on this point and right to be so.  That is why he originally  
> termed the traditional graphs 'side forms' - meaning they exist  
> beside and along with the official forms.
>
> And Michael - once again the initial information on the conference  
> is available in the latest newsletter you have received. Full  
> information will go out as soon as the details of venue are confirmed.
>
> I may not be online again for a day or two but hope that this will  
> help to explain why we take the stance we do in support of the  
> agreement as made.
>
> Yn lel,
>
> Jenefer Lowe
> Development Manager / Dyghtyer displegya
> Cornish Language Partnership / Keskowethyans an Taves Kernewek
> Cornwall Council / Konsel Kernow
> Dalvenie House / Chi Dalvenie
> County Hall / Lys Kernow
> Truro
> TR1 3AY
>
> tel: / pell: 01872 323465
> email / ebost: jlowe at cornwall.gov.uk
> website / gwiasva : www.magakernow.org.uk
>
> Gwrewgh agan sewya der Twitter!
> @magakernow
>
> Gwrewgh agan kavos der Facebook!  Find us on Facebook!
> www.facebook.com/magakernow
>
> The Cornish Language Partnership is funded by the Department for  
> Communities and Local Government and Cornwall Council.
> Arhesans Keskowethyans an Taves Kernewek yw provies gans an Asran  
> rag Kemenethow ha Governans Leel, ha Konsel Kernow
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net 
> ] On Behalf Of Daniel Prohaska
> Sent: 05 August 2012 16:05
> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] SWF (t) and Maga web site
>
> I can't remember. It's likely I wrote to Jenefer or Elizabeth about  
> it.
> Dan
>
>
> On Aug 5, 2012, at 3:33 PM, Michael Everson wrote:
>
> > On 5 Aug 2012, at 14:27, Daniel Prohaska wrote:
> >
> >> I have offered to make a SWF/t version of the dictionary and my  
> offer has simply been ignored…
> >
> > Who was it who ignored it?
> >
> > Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Spellyans mailing list
> > Spellyans at kernowek.net
> > http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>
>
> Ray Chubb
>
> Portreth
> Kernow
>
> Agan Tavas web site:  www.agantavas.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Spellyans mailing list
> Spellyans at kernowek.net
> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5185 - Release Date:  
> 08/07/12
> _______________________________________________
> Spellyans mailing list
> Spellyans at kernowek.net
> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://kernowek.net/pipermail/spellyans_kernowek.net/attachments/20120808/4758377d/attachment-0002.html>


More information about the Spellyans mailing list