[Spellyans] SWF (t) and 2013

Craig Weatherhill craig at agantavas.org
Sun Aug 19 13:45:00 IST 2012

There is always room for compromise, but compromise is a two-way  
process.  Thus far, only one side - traditionalists - have made the  
necessary moves.  The "logicalists" have yet to do so and, until and  
unless they do, we're going nowhere.

However, and although some dislike final -i, I have no problem with  
it.  In place-name history (textual evidence in my own view), <chi>  
occurs as often as <chy> does, and final -i is common in Late Cornish,  
too, particularly in plurals.  chi > chei (Late variant) is also a lot  
smoother than chy > chei.

I also think there's a case for <oe> in certain words, e.g. "goon",  
but only for that sound, and not to the extent that KK used it.   
<goen> is the commonest spelling of that element in place-name  
history.  The E is dropped for derivatives (plurals, adjectives,  
etc.).  Therefore, there is traditional precedence and justification  
for those graphs.  As Ray says, there is none, or next to none, for  
<hw> and <kw>, and where it represents at least 3 sound values.

The question remains - how much are the "logicalists" prepared to move  
in order to gain a workable solution?


On 19 Est 2012, at 13:21, Ray Chubb wrote:

> Having had a look at the forum below I wonder if the 'next  
> generation' really understand the issues involved.  Those of us who  
> were closer to the beginning of the revival appreciate how there was  
> a need for authenticity in order to avoid ridicule from academia.  
> Common Cornish, introduced in 1987, has indeed suffered ridicule  
> from Celtic Studies academia in a way which Unified never did.
> Having said that Nicky's posting has got me thinking.  It seems that  
> 'k' before back vowels does occur occasionally in the traditional  
> texts.  Perhaps the 'authenticists' could give way on this in 2013  
> in order to reduce the number of variants in the SWF.  On the other  
> hand 'hw' seems never to occur nor does 'kw' therefore in return  
> perhaps the 'logicalists' could give these up for 'wh' which is  
> always used and 'qw' which occurs occasionally instead of the normal  
> 'qu'.
> On 18 Est 2012, at 14:41, Nicky Rowe wrote:
>> On 17 August 2012 22:09, Hedley Climo <eddie_climo at yahoo.co.uk>  
>> wrote:
>> On 2012 Est 17, at 14:56, Nicky Rowe wrote:
>> >
>> > The next generation, who were not part of the disputes of the  
>> past 25 years, want one and are crying out for one.
>> Really? Do you have any evidence to support this claim? It does  
>> sound awfully anecdotal.
>> Read this discussion: http://www.memrise.com/topic/cornish/forum/  
>> Many there are beginners and want the site to use a single form to  
>> make things easier for them.
>> If you are involved with Memrise you will know that the technology  
>> behind it does not really allow for the kind of variant forms that  
>> Cornish has. Tools such as this which require collaboration among a  
>> large number of people to be really effective require a consistent  
>> orthography, and if everyone just "made their own minds up", like  
>> is being suggested by some here, these projects just get bogged  
>> down in talk of orthography.
>> Localisation is another area where a single form is needed. I am  
>> involved in the localisation of Firefox, VLC, Ubuntu and Chrome,  
>> which requires translating thousands of strings. Huge projects like  
>> Ubuntu cannot be done by one person alone, it needs to be a  
>> collaborative project. If one person wants to use one orthography  
>> and another wants to use a different one, it ends up in stalemate  
>> if there are two or more equal versions. There cannot be K and T  
>> versions of Firefox for example, it's one or the other.
>> Most of what MAGA does can only be done using one form. Trying to  
>> duplicate Tamm ha Tamm, Porth, promotional material etc two or even  
>> four times would be a huge waste of their already limited  
>> resources. I'm not arguing for or against the particular form they  
>> use, just that a single form is necessary.
>> Duplicating dictionaries and newsletters etc is fine and easy but  
>> there are many areas where it is just not practical. The number of  
>> these areas is going to grow as technology advances and is used  
>> more and more for teaching and learning.
>> Nicky
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> Ray Chubb
> Portreth
> Kernow
> Agan Tavas web site:  www.agantavas.com
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