[Spellyans] kemeres

A. J. Trim ajtrim at msn.com
Mon May 14 22:01:59 IST 2012


Nicky,

So in, for example, <kemmyn> "legacy", <kemynskrif> "a will", we have a word within a word and with secondary stress on <kem->.
Why then do we not retain the double <m> to match your explanation of <pellgowser>?

Why <gallos>, <galosow> but <ollgallos>, <ollgallosow>?
Why <komparriv> "ratio" but <komparrivow>?


Regards,

Andrew J. Trim  




From: Nicky Rowe 
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 5:02 PM
To: Standard Cornish discussion list 
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] kemeres


Yes it's stressed as pellGOWSer, but the idea is that the pell has a slight stress because it's a word within a word instead of just a syllable of a word. So the pel in pelednow has no stress, because it's part of the word pellen. But because pellgowser is a compound word made up of pell and cowser, the pell has a slight secondary stress that keeps pell intact.

Whether this secondary stress existed or not in traditional Cornish I haven't the foggiest, but for the purposes of the SWF, there 'tis.

Nicky




On 14 May 2012 01:50, A. J. Trim <ajtrim at msn.com> wrote:

  Nicky,

  Thanks. However, I’m not convinced that <pellgowser> can have a secondary stress on the first syllable, even though the SWF spec. says that it does. Surely, it’s stressed as pellGOWSer.

  Should the <-he> words all be written as two words, e.g. <gwadn he>, <gwell ha>, <spladn howgh> , <ombèll hes>, etc.?


  Regards,

  Andrew J. Trim


  From: Nicky Rowe 
  Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 9:30 PM
  To: Standard Cornish discussion list 
  Subject: Re: [Spellyans] kemeres

    However, if the prefix ends in a double letter (i.e. ‹ll›, ‹mm›, ‹nn› and ‹rr›), the double letter is retained, e.g. <kollverk> "an apostrophe", "kollverkys> "apostrophes".


  This is a compound word "loss mark" like pellgowser and pednglin. The SWF spec says they have "secondary stress".

  -he words also keep secondary stress, i.e. gwellhe, gwadnhe, etc (same as KS). The reason for this comes from gwadn hez used in Nebbaz Gerriau.

  Nicky




  On 13 May 2012 00:50, A. J. Trim <ajtrim at msn.com> wrote:

    I find that this system is quite difficult. Perhaps it is just a lack of explanation. My examples are from MAGA's new  .pdf  dictionary:

    With some words, we get the expected result, e.g. <bomm> "a blow"/"a crash", <bommel> "a buffer", <bomellow> "buffers".

    It's not quite as simple as that.
    Sometimes we have a prefix that ends in the same letter as the word to which it is prefixed, e.g. <howllennow> "parasols". This is quite reasonable.

    Sometimes we have a prefix with a double letter (i.e. ‹ll›, ‹mm›, ‹nn› and ‹rr›), e.g. <kemmyn> "common", <kemynskrif> "a will". So far, so good.

    However, if the prefix ends in a double letter (i.e. ‹ll›, ‹mm›, ‹nn› and ‹rr›), the double letter is retained, e.g. <kollverk> "an apostrophe", "kollverkys> "apostrophes".
    At first, this appears to be at odds with <bomellow> above. Then we have <koloryon> "a male loser" which seems to conform.
    We have <jynner> "a male mechanic" but <jynores> "a female mechanic". These are derivatives of <jynn> "engine".
    Then we have <jynnweyth> "machinery" and <jynnweythek> "mechanical", where <jynn> is a prefix in a compound word.
    We also have <gwellhe> "to improve". Are we saying that this is a compound word rather than a derivative?
    I also found <ombellhe> "to withdraw" and <ollgallosow> (apparently the plural of <ollgallos> "an omnipotence".)


    Regards,

    Andrew J. Trim



    From: Daniel Prohaska 
    Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 1:51 AM
    To: Standard Cornish discussion list 
    Subject: Re: [Spellyans] kemeres

    Double consonants in pre-tonic, unstressed position are only simplified in the cases of ‹ll›, ‹mm›, ‹nn› and ‹rr›. 
    Dan

    On May 11, 2012, at 11:17 PM, A. J. Trim wrote:


      However:-

      This is different from the SWF <attes> "comfort" but <attesva> "comfort station" / "lavatory".
      Why is this not <atesva>?

      We also have SWF <attamya> "to tackle", <abattiow> "abbeys", <addyansow> "additions", <Bouddieth>*  "Buddhism", <apperya> "to feature", and <robbyoryon> "robbers". 
      Why do we have a double letter after an unstressed vowel in these words?

      [ * Also, why not <Bouddiedh>* . Does this have something in common with <nowyth>? As I understand it, the SWF rule is final <-dh> when unstressed.]


      Regards,

      Andrew J. Trim




      From: Nicholas Williams 
      Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:54 PM
      To: Standard Cornish discussion list 
      Subject: Re: [Spellyans] kemeres

      No. The <mm> or <bm> is written only after a stressed vowel. 
      After an unstressed vowel as in <kemeres> the consonant is written singular.
      This is the same as dallath but dalethys, or tyller but tyleryow, cannas/cadnas but canasow.

      Nicholas


      On 10 May 2012, at 14:47, Jon Mills wrote:


        Should it not be written kemmeres / kebmeres ?



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