[Spellyans] kemeres

Nicky Rowe nickyrowe at gmail.com
Tue May 15 19:10:31 IST 2012


>
> So in, for example, <*kemmyn*> "legacy", <*kemynskrif*> "a will", we have
> a word within a word and with secondary stress on <*kem*->.
>
> Why then do we not retain the double <*m*> to match your explanation of <*
> pellgowser*>?
>

No, there's no secondary stress on kem. The "secondary stress" only happens
when words of one syllable are used, e.g. pell, pedn, cabm, corr, rann
(words with radn don't feature in the dictionary, not sure why). So because
"kem" on its own isn't a word, it's part of the two syllable word "kemmyn",
there's no secondary stress.

Here's some others:

*pell*gowser
*pedn*fenten
*cabm*dhavas
*corr*gowsel
*rann*diryel
*brodn*viles
*mabm*scrifow
*jynn*scrifa
*berr*scrifa
*gwadn*liwek


Why <*komparriv*> "ratio" but <*komparrivow*>?
>

Like Dan says this is two words "kompar" and "riv", so it's not really a
double r but just two separate r's belonging to different words.

Nicky




On 14 May 2012 22:01, A. J. Trim <ajtrim at msn.com> wrote:

> **
> Nicky,
>
> So in, for example, <*kemmyn*> "legacy", <*kemynskrif*> "a will", we have
> a word within a word and with secondary stress on <*kem*->.
> Why then do we not retain the double <*m*> to match your explanation of <*
> pellgowser*>?
>
> Why <*gallos*>, <*galosow*> but <*ollgallos*>, <*ollgallosow*>?
> Why <*komparriv*> "ratio" but <*komparrivow*>?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrew J. Trim
>
>
>
>  *From:* Nicky Rowe <nickyrowe at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 14, 2012 5:02 PM
> *To:* Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] kemeres
>
> Yes it's stressed as pellGOWSer, but the idea is that the pell has a
> slight stress because it's a word within a word instead of just a syllable
> of a word. So the pel in pelednow has no stress, because it's part of the
> word pellen. But because pellgowser is a compound word made up of pell and
> cowser, the pell has a slight secondary stress that keeps pell intact.
>
> Whether this secondary stress existed or not in traditional Cornish I
> haven't the foggiest, but for the purposes of the SWF, there 'tis.
>
> Nicky
>
>
>
> On 14 May 2012 01:50, A. J. Trim <ajtrim at msn.com> wrote:
>
>>   Nicky,
>>
>> Thanks. However, I’m not convinced that <*pellgowser*> can have a
>> secondary stress on the first syllable, even though the SWF spec. says that
>> it does. Surely, it’s stressed as pell*GOWS*er.
>>
>> Should the <-*he*> words all be written as two words, e.g. <*gwadn he*>,
>> <*gwell ha*>, <*spladn howgh*> , <*ombèll hes*>, etc.?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Andrew J. Trim
>>
>>
>>   *From:* Nicky Rowe <nickyrowe at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 13, 2012 9:30 PM
>>  *To:* Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] kemeres
>>
>>
>>> However, if the prefix ends in a double letter (i.e. ‹ll›, ‹mm›, ‹nn›
>>> and ‹rr›), the double letter is retained, e.g. <*kollverk*> "an
>>> apostrophe", "*kollverkys*> "apostrophes".
>>>
>>
>> This is a compound word "loss mark" like pellgowser and pednglin. The
>> SWF spec says they have "secondary stress".
>>
>> -he words also keep secondary stress, i.e. gwellhe, gwadnhe, etc (same as
>> KS). The reason for this comes from *gwadn hez *used in Nebbaz Gerriau.
>>
>> Nicky
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13 May 2012 00:50, A. J. Trim <ajtrim at msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>> I find that this system is quite difficult. Perhaps it is just a lack of
>>> explanation. My examples are from MAGA's new  .pdf  dictionary:
>>>
>>> With some words, we get the expected result, e.g. <*bomm*> "a blow"/"a
>>> crash", <*bommel*> "a buffer", <*bomellow*> "buffers".
>>>
>>> It's not quite as simple as that.
>>> Sometimes we have a prefix that ends in the same letter as the word to
>>> which it is prefixed, e.g. <*howllennow*> "parasols". This is quite
>>> reasonable.
>>>
>>> Sometimes we have a prefix with a double letter (i.e. ‹ll›, ‹mm›, ‹nn›
>>> and ‹rr›), e.g. <*kemmyn*> "common", <*kemynskrif*> "a will". So far,
>>> so good.
>>>
>>> However, if the prefix ends in a double letter (i.e. ‹ll›, ‹mm›, ‹nn›
>>> and ‹rr›), the double letter is retained, e.g. <*kollverk*> "an
>>> apostrophe", "*kollverkys*> "apostrophes".
>>> At first, this appears to be at odds with <*bomellow*> above. Then we
>>> have <*koloryon*> "a male loser" which seems to conform.
>>> We have <*jynner*> "a male mechanic" but <*jynores*> "a female
>>> mechanic". These are derivatives of <*jynn*> "engine".
>>> Then we have <*jynnweyth*> "machinery" and <*jynnweythek*>
>>> "mechanical", where <*jynn*> is a prefix in a compound word.
>>> We also have <*gwellhe*> "to improve". Are we saying that this is a
>>> compound word rather than a derivative?
>>> I also found <*ombellhe*> "to withdraw" and <*ollgallosow*> (apparently
>>> the plural of <*ollgallos*> "an omnipotence".)
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Andrew J. Trim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  *From:* Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 12, 2012 1:51 AM
>>>  *To:* Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] kemeres
>>>
>>> Double consonants in pre-tonic, unstressed position are only simplified
>>> in the cases of ‹ll›, ‹mm›, ‹nn› and ‹rr›.
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>  On May 11, 2012, at 11:17 PM, A. J. Trim wrote:
>>>
>>>  However:-
>>>
>>> This is different from the SWF <*attes*> "comfort" but <*attesva*>
>>> "comfort station" / "lavatory".
>>> Why is this not <*atesva*>?
>>>
>>> We also have SWF <*attamya*> "to tackle", <*abattiow*> "abbeys", <*
>>> addyansow*> "additions", <*Bouddieth*>*  "Buddhism", <*apperya*> "to
>>> feature", and <*robbyoryon*> "robbers".
>>> Why do we have a double letter after an unstressed vowel in these words?
>>>
>>> [ * Also, why not <*Bouddiedh*>* . Does this have something in common
>>> with <*nowyth*>? As I understand it, the SWF rule is final <-*dh*> when
>>> unstressed.]
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Andrew J. Trim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  *From:* Nicholas Williams <njawilliams at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:54 PM
>>> *To:* Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] kemeres
>>>
>>> No. The <mm> or <bm> is written only after a stressed vowel.
>>> After an unstressed vowel as in <kemeres> the consonant is written
>>> singular.
>>> This is the same as dallath but dalethys, or tyller but tyleryow,
>>> cannas/cadnas but canasow.
>>>
>>> Nicholas
>>>
>>>
>>>  On 10 May 2012, at 14:47, Jon Mills wrote:
>>>
>>> Should it not be written *kemmeres / kebmeres* ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
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