[Spellyans] horseman

Daniel Prohaska daniel at ryan-prohaska.com
Sat Nov 3 12:37:41 GMT 2012


On Nov 2, 2012, at 5:43 PM, Linus Band wrote:

> I have thrown *marˈxɔːk in to the soundlaw machine:
> *marˈxɔːk (final stress!)
> *marˈxɔk
> *marˈxœk (stressed ɔ became œ in OSWBr., cf. *mɔːr > meur)
> *ˈmarxœk
> I do not know, however, what to do in Cornish once œ become unstressed because of the accent shift to the penultimate syllable. Does anyone else? My point was, anyway, that the plural in marregyon/marregion might contain the old /œ/, that was retained in a stressed syllable as we would expect soundlaw-wise (c.f. /mœr/ that was spelt mer/muer/mur).
> 
>  Linus 


After the accent shift /œ/ regularly unrounded and fell in with old /ɛ/ and probably developed into [ə] during the MC period. It is indeed a possibility that the reflex ‹-egyon› is the old /œ/, later unrounded even in stressed position. There is a lot of ambiguity in the texts where this is concerned. Schrijver wrote about this in SBCHP and poses the question whether PrBr /ɔː/ in pretonic position (i.e. later stressed in OC and thereafter) shortened and fell in with /o/, or whether it developed in to /œ/ linearly. The texts are not clear and there are tendencies in PA and OM, as well as partially in BM to write ‹o›, while PC often has ‹u› and RD and BM usually ‹e› and ‹v/u›; ‹u e v› are all possible spellings for /œ/ and ‹o› for /o/, so we could be dealing with a situation where the scribes of PA and OM spoke a different dialect that had /o/ from the scribes of PC, RD and BM which had /œ/. More in Schrijver SBCHP (2.2 pp. 197-209).

Dan


On Nov 2, 2012, at 5:43 PM, Linus Band wrote:

> 
> 
> 2012/10/31 Nicholas Williams <njawilliams at gmail.com>
> In Cornish the word for 'horseman' ends either in -ek or -ak:
> 
> marrak PA 246, BK 1514, 1632, 1648, marrack NBoson 
> 
> marrek PA 241d, 242a, 244a, 245a, OM 2004, 2139, 2150, 2204, 2226, 2338, BM 350, 2444.
> marreg PA 190b, 190c, 217a, 218b.
> 
> The voicing of the final stop in marreg is probably to be explained by dissimilation. The reduction of the medial -rx- to -rh- (and thus a devoiced r)
> probably led to the voicing of the final segment by dissimilation of the sequence voiceless + voiceless > voiceless + voiced.
> 
> I haven't found any reference to a soundlaw that entails exactly this dissimilation, so I put your theory to the test by looking up 'answer'. I found:
> gortheb OM 2229
> wortheb OM 2235
> worthyb BK 52, 192, 604, 1876, 2099, 2263, 3168
> gorthyb BM 1442, 3457, BK 211, 1887, 2094, 2101, 2140, 2274
> gorthyp PC 512, 1722, 1735, 1839, 2008, RD 494, 1228, 1834
> gorthib CW 1754
> gorryb CW 1198, 1736, 1761
> (I don't have the other texts at hand, I'm afraid)
> 
> Perhaps an example that also has the original cluster -rx- would have been better, but I couldn't really think of one. Anyway, apart from PC and RD, the evidence seems to support your claim. The counterevidence still remains to be explained, however. Any ideas?
> 
> 
>  
>  
> The original shape of the word was probably *marhek < *marxâko- cf. Welsh marchog < earlier marchawc.
> 
> The expected plural with o (cf. bohosek, but bohosogyon) is seen in 
> 
> marrogyon BM 221, BK 1946, 2381, marrogyan BK 2252
> marogyan  OM 1876, marogyen BM 1742, marogyon BM 294, 815, 4359, BK 3286.
> 
> There is, however, an analogical plural in -egyon:
> 
> marregyon PC 1613, 2347, RD 657, marregion RD 607.
> 
> I think the revived language should allow both, and spell them marhogyon, marhegyon.
> 
> Nicholas
> 
> 
> I have thrown *marˈxɔːk in to the soundlaw machine:
> *marˈxɔːk (final stress!)
> *marˈxɔk
> *marˈxœk (stressed ɔ became œ in OSWBr., cf. *mɔːr > meur)
> *ˈmarxœk
> I do not know, however, what to do in Cornish once œ become unstressed because of the accent shift to the penultimate syllable. Does anyone else? My point was, anyway, that the plural in marregyon/marregion might contain the old /œ/, that was retained in a stressed syllable as we would expect soundlaw-wise (c.f. /mœr/ that was spelt mer/muer/mur).
> 
>  Linus 
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