[Spellyans] The sound of r

Fri Dec 13 12:45:52 GMT 2013

Many thanks, Craig.

I very much appreciate your difficulties. And it is reassuring to note that
you have persisted on this panel, and maintained arguments for
traditional/attested/historic/linguistically sound forms.

I feel that your efforts have been most worthwhile, and it is very
encouraging that you have been able to pursuade others of valid arguments.

This draws attention to the amateur efforts of the past which produced
spellings such as the awful Kammbronn.  Once committed to some sort of use,
the mistake persists beyond all reasonable efforts to correct it.

We are fortunate in regard to Gaelic that there are sufficient professional
and proficient place-name specialists that they can be empanelled onto the
board of Ainmean Aite na h-Alba (AAA) which is now the officially recognised
place-names authority, and can produce spellings which fulfil all requisite
criteria.

So do feel that your continued presence and efforts are important and indeed
vital for real progress in this matter.

- Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] On Behalf Of Craig
Weatherhill
Sent: 13 December 2013 10:22
To: Standard Cornish discussion list
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] The sound of r

I do tend to use MAGA when I mean the CLP, so apologies for that, Ken.
However, the structure of the Partnership is far from being fairly balanced,
and that's where the problem lies.

The imbalance also applies to the Signage Panel which began by being
reasonably balanced but, now, the only voice there for Traditional Cornish
is mine.  So it works within the "Main' form, which can be cringeworthy at
times, especially when "hw" turns up, but I grit my teeth and hang in there.
To be fair, we all do work and discuss very well - far better than I would
have imagined at the outset.  Of course, I concentrate upon the historic
names which come up, and I do my best to come up with the best evidence and
argument that I can to try to avoid the embarrassing mistakes of the past
(see "Form and Content"). 

 It's been more than worthwhile because the very people I thought would not
listen to me are actually prepared to listen.  They will ask the right sort
of questions and (generally) accept the reply.  In several cases, this
discussion has thrown new light on the derivation of a name, so it has been
(and continues to be) a very constructive exercise.

The overall result is pleasing.  We've decided on Cornish forms for
somewhere between 1200 and 1500 historic names.  Of those, I reject 5
completely, and question (to varying degrees) about a dozen.  Which isn't
bad at all, and makes me feel that my time and effort IS fully worthwhile.
The Panel produces a master list in "Main" form only - I keep a duplicate
which adds the Traditional form where it's required.

The one that really annoyed me was taken out of the Panel's hands, and you
guess which one that was.  We're stuck (for now) with the awful:
<Kammbronn>.  The Partnership, not the Panel, decided that one, and I still
argue that they have insufficient knowledge to do so.  Their argument was
that the form that appears on the Town Council's letterhead should not be
altered....     Even Albert confirms that it breaches SWF rules, and I was
so close to getting a Panel agreement on <Kammbron/Cammbron>, which would
have observed the rules (a form <Kambronn> is recorded in one C15 document,
but misleadingly suggests a second syllable stress.  In the next line, the
same scribe writes <Kambron>).

I am hopeful that this name can be revisited and reconsidered, and will
continue to campaign for that.

Craig

On 2013 Kev 13, at 06:15, Ken MacKinnon wrote:

> To be fair to MAGA, they represent the Partnership, Craig, they have 
> finite resources, few paid staff, and a very substantial slate of 
> things which need to be done.
> 
> - an Ken ken
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] On Behalf Of 
> Craig Weatherhill
> Sent: 12 December 2013 21:36
> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] The sound of r
> 
> Yes, not a very good attitude on MAGA's part, is it?
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
> On 2013 Kev 12, at 20:51, Michael Everson wrote:
> 
>> On 12 Dec 2013, at 17:01, Craig Weatherhill <craig at agantavas.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm not prepared to deride some speakers on Radyo an G. for the very
> reasons you give, Eddie.  I'd just like them to look more closely at 
> pronunciation.
>> 
>> I have been offering for years to transcribe some of the recordings 
>> MAGA
> has, but to date the offer has not been taken up. 
>> 
>> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
>> 
>> 
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