[Spellyans] The sound of r

Christian Semmens christian.semmens at gmail.com
Wed Dec 11 17:17:31 GMT 2013


Pop along to KDL and prepare for more r-r-r-r-r's than your ears can stand!
It is horrible.

That aside, Craig, do you use a retroflex r or a bunched r, or both? I find
it depends on the word, something like "murder" seems retroflex whilst
"grand" or "great" used a bunched r whilst "grander" uses both.

It can be difficult to tell without an x-ray machine or a pen to poke about
with to work out what the tip of your tongue is actually doing  :)

Is there any evidence that a pervasive trilled r was used in Cornish this
side of the Norman Conquest?

Christian


On 11 December 2013 16:34, Clive Baker <clive.baker at gmail.com> wrote:

> It was used by and taught to me by Tallek and Peter Poole although only as
> a very light trill and never with such a rrrrrr as spoken by the bard you
> talk of Craig...his is so obviously false.....as to its validity I can give
> no answer but believe that I have heard Nance use the same many many years
> ago
> Clive
> On Dec 11, 2013 4:26 PM, "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org> wrote:
>
>> I've heard it at a Gorsedh, from an elderly (non-Cornish) bard, intoning
>> Cornish like some Biblical prophet of doom.  Rak (rag) was coming out as
>> "R-r-r-r-r-r- ak"., rather as once taught in elocution lessons.  I felt so
>> embarrassed that spectators were being subjected to Cornish being spoken in
>> such an appallingly awful manner which it never had as a community
>> language, and which was far more likely to invite ridicule.  In fact, I
>> felt rather…err…"browned-off".
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2013 Kev 11, at 15:47, Christian Semmens wrote:
>>
>> > Whilst stumbling around the internet during a quiet few minutes, I came
>> upon someone recommending the KDL free language course. I hadn't been over
>> that fence for a while so I thought I'd have a listen to the audio.
>> >
>> > I will make no further comment on it as I am no expert on ancient
>> Cornish sounds, I'll leave that for others (although I would be interested
>> to hear if anyone thinks those sounds have any merit in revived Cornish at
>> all).
>> >
>> > That took me on to the sounds of r in British and Irish dialects and,
>> although it will be no news to others, came across the "bunched r" or
>> "molar r" and was surprised to find that I used it too, particularly when
>> in Cornwall. Although it may well be the effect on my speech by having
>> moved up-country at an early age. It appears that this type of r sound is
>> fairly common in the US and Australia. For those of you who still have a
>> full-time Cornish accent (mine is oddly dependent upon which side of
>> Gordano services I am on), do you also use a bunched r sound or are your r
>> sounds the retroflex alveolar appoximant variety or a mix?
>> >
>> > (I've never heard a Cornishman use an alveolar trill, unless he was
>> impersonating a Scotsman)
>> >
>> > Christian
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