[Spellyans] The sound of r

Craig Weatherhill craig at agantavas.org
Wed Dec 11 17:57:40 GMT 2013


I haven't a clue when it comes to the technical terms.  I simply use the same R I've spoken all my life.  Just like the older folk in West Cornwall.  A R which is spoken and never left silent, e.g "baker" is "BAI-ker", never "BAIK-uh".  It's simply spoken and not exaggerated in any way.

Craig



On 2013 Kev 11, at 17:17, Christian Semmens wrote:

> Pop along to KDL and prepare for more r-r-r-r-r's than your ears can stand! It is horrible.
> 
> That aside, Craig, do you use a retroflex r or a bunched r, or both? I find it depends on the word, something like "murder" seems retroflex whilst "grand" or "great" used a bunched r whilst "grander" uses both.
> 
> It can be difficult to tell without an x-ray machine or a pen to poke about with to work out what the tip of your tongue is actually doing  :)
> 
> Is there any evidence that a pervasive trilled r was used in Cornish this side of the Norman Conquest?
> 
> Christian
> 
> 
> On 11 December 2013 16:34, Clive Baker <clive.baker at gmail.com> wrote:
> It was used by and taught to me by Tallek and Peter Poole although only as a very light trill and never with such a rrrrrr as spoken by the bard you talk of Craig...his is so obviously false.....as to its validity I can give no answer but believe that I have heard Nance use the same many many years ago
> Clive
> 
> On Dec 11, 2013 4:26 PM, "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org> wrote:
> I've heard it at a Gorsedh, from an elderly (non-Cornish) bard, intoning Cornish like some Biblical prophet of doom.  Rak (rag) was coming out as "R-r-r-r-r-r- ak"., rather as once taught in elocution lessons.  I felt so embarrassed that spectators were being subjected to Cornish being spoken in such an appallingly awful manner which it never had as a community language, and which was far more likely to invite ridicule.  In fact, I felt rather…err…"browned-off".
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
> 
> On 2013 Kev 11, at 15:47, Christian Semmens wrote:
> 
> > Whilst stumbling around the internet during a quiet few minutes, I came upon someone recommending the KDL free language course. I hadn't been over that fence for a while so I thought I'd have a listen to the audio.
> >
> > I will make no further comment on it as I am no expert on ancient Cornish sounds, I'll leave that for others (although I would be interested to hear if anyone thinks those sounds have any merit in revived Cornish at all).
> >
> > That took me on to the sounds of r in British and Irish dialects and, although it will be no news to others, came across the "bunched r" or "molar r" and was surprised to find that I used it too, particularly when in Cornwall. Although it may well be the effect on my speech by having moved up-country at an early age. It appears that this type of r sound is fairly common in the US and Australia. For those of you who still have a full-time Cornish accent (mine is oddly dependent upon which side of Gordano services I am on), do you also use a bunched r sound or are your r sounds the retroflex alveolar appoximant variety or a mix?
> >
> > (I've never heard a Cornishman use an alveolar trill, unless he was impersonating a Scotsman)
> >
> > Christian
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