[Spellyans] Place-Names & maps

e-mail kevin.blackburn1 kevin.blackburn1 at ntlworld.com
Fri Feb 8 13:48:55 GMT 2013


Some thoughts: Place names in Cornwall, like in the rest of Britain, must
reflect the history of how they got to where they are now - it would be a
strange world if all place names were respelled with modern orthography and
consistency - imagine around where I live: Guildford would become
Golden-ford, Shalford - Shallow-ford, Burpham - Boar's hamlet, Worplesdon -
Werpe's hill & down, Pirbright - Peartree grove, and so on - i.e. losing
all their history and the contractions and fashions that time has thrown at
them.

So with place names I feel the question of orthography is rather
irrelevant, and that the stance of Craig's book which doesn't apply a
consistent orthography but takes into account all different influences on
determining a current name for a place, is the right way to go. If SWF/KK
or UC, or whatever is applied to place names all over Cornwall, the local
flavours and natural diversifications will be lost etc.

I'm beginning to realise that this is a difficult road to travel!

Herbie


On 8 February 2013 13:31, Craig Weatherhill <craig at agantavas.org> wrote:

> The Signage Panel is only producing a list in SWF/K.  I've been compiling
> a parallel list, for place-names, with both that and SWF/T.
>
> My dictionary took into account all Oliver's published work, plus many
> other sources including (with care, because it's full of errors) Gover.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On 2013 Whe 6, at 17:39, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
>
> *Many thanks for that Christian.*
> * *
> *Another starter on this project might be a 1 inch to 6 miles scale which
> would get most of Cornwall onto an A4 sheet with insets in the sea areas
> for Scilly and North Cornwall (as did the old Bart’s).  This scale could
> also carry some relief and would provide for more place-name information
> that the one I circulated.  I am not sure who originated this and would
> welcome information.   It was an excellent effort for its scale.  It
> delineated and named the hundreds which is useful as the districts are now
> defunct since the unitary authority was created.*
> * *
> *The place-name spellings need some care.  I understand that Craig’s list
> is a composite spelling between historic forms, SWF and KS.  It would also
> be valuable to take advantage of the place-name resources of the Institute
> place-name archive, the Place-name and Signage Panel, and any list of
> Oliver’s which is in public access.*
> * *
> *Best wishes - Ken*
> ** **
> *From:* Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] *On Behalf Of *Christian
> Semmens
> *Sent:* 06 February 2013 12:49
>
> *To:* Standard Cornish discussion list
> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] Place-Names & maps****
> ** **
>
> Hi Ken,
>
> I'll make a much smaller one, perhaps starting with Tresco or St Marys,
> That way you should be able to download it and see it. This first one was
> simply a test and full of unnecessary detail, which is why it is so big.**
> **
>
> Christian****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On 6 February 2013 11:49, Ken MacKinnon <ken at ferintosh.org> wrote:****
> *Christian / Herbie, and friends.*****
> * *****
> *‘Broad’band here runs at 0.477 m/ps download and 0.230  upload – so I am
> not making much progress  with this one and shall probably have to abort it.
> *****
> * *****
> *Thanks nevertheless - Ken*****
>  ****
> *From:* Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] *On Behalf Of *Christian
> Semmens****
>
> *Sent:* 05 February 2013 17:12****
> *To:* Standard Cornish discussion list
> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] Place-Names & maps****
>  ****
>
> Hi, apologies to those on dial-up (if there are any these days)****
>
> a 6.3MB SVG file with a few artifacts, but detailed enough to give you an
> idea of what is possible.****
>
> The coastline is a little flooded, but all the roiads and paths are
> clearly visible.****
>
>  ****
>
> You can't do anything with this file other than look at it, but that is a
> start. You will need something that can show SVG files, I believe most
> browsers can do that, but it may make your browser choke as it is so big.
> But this is just the first step.****
>
> Good luck!****
>
> Christian****
>
>  ****
>
> On 5 February 2013 16:41, Christian Semmens <christian.semmens at gmail.com>
> wrote:****
>
> Sounds good, It is the backgrounds that are going to prove interesting.***
> *
>
> I did a quick download and am partway through a render to an SVG image
> file, but I think it must be a HUGE file as it has been going for half the
> day and shows no signs of stopping anytime soon.****
>
> If it does work I will see if I can mail it out. This is a first stab and
> will be basically an OSM map of West Penwith, but it shoudl show us what is
> possible with the data we have. It might have everything on it in which
> case it will be as cluttered as hell (in which case I won't send it), but
> we will just have to wait and see.****
>
> If it is too large perhaps we could start with the Scillies, a
> geographically much smaller area?****
>
>  ****
>
> Christian****
>
>  ****
>
> On 5 February 2013 16:23, e-mail kevin.blackburn1 <
> kevin.blackburn1 at ntlworld.com> wrote:****
>
> If, as a first step, a set of sites, a route and suitable labels can be
> sorted/agreed for the Lergh an Yeth, then Christian could get the symbol
> and bilingual labels onto the map as the second step. The steps 3/4 could
> be the leaflet/guidebook, and the plaques themselves.****
>
>  ****
>
> Christian, let me know if you need a hand with anything (in parallel to
> your first steps with OpenStreetMap I downloaded the Miniscale OS Opendata
> maps - they are quite good too for overlaying of features you want; but I
> did not get very far or technical, mainly considered using it as a backdrop
> vector for new graphics and text layers).****
>
>  ****
>
> Regards****
>
>  ****
>
> Herbie****
>
>  ****
>
> On 5 February 2013 15:17, Ken MacKinnon <ken at ferintosh.org> wrote:****
> *A gowtha ker,*****
> * *****
> *I was going to add to an earlier email that if a Cornish language map
> was brought out that one of the symbols might indeed be such sites that I
> have suggested should constitute a ‘Cornish Language Trail /  Lergh an
> Yeth.  I floated this idea some years ago and felt that the sites
> themselves should be signboarded / blue plaqued bilingually with
> accompanying guide book / leaflets.    Something similar has been initiated
> here with the Gaelic Rings projects and has involved tourist, travel and
> transport undertakings and commissioned authors.*****
> * *****
>
> -        *An ken Ken.*****
> * *****
> *From:* Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] *On Behalf Of *Janice
> Lobb
> *Sent:* 05 February 2013 11:37****
>
> *To:* Standard Cornish discussion list
> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] Place-Names & maps****
>  ****
>
> At some stage it would be really nice to have a sort of "pilgrimage" map
> that showed all the places where people can see some Cornish  and
> where people significant in the revival lived, etc.****
>
>  ****
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 12:33 AM, Herbie Blackburn <
> kevin.blackburn1 at ntlworld.com> wrote:****
> Craig, Ken, Christian hag oll,****
>  ****
> I may just have a go at this when I have some time – I have some
> ‘semi-professional’ graphics skills, producing tomes / posters for client’s
> significant birthdays, and have the software to do this. I also have a
> friend who has produced published maps of our local area. I’d have to
> research the legal / copyright situation with regard to getting an accurate
> layout of Cornwall, and symbols etc. that I can use (probably by use of the
> OS Opendata facility), and also rely on you all for direction / objectives
> for the project, content editing, feedback and so on.****
>  ****
> This would be after my daughters wedding and subject to a lot of issues
> that I might have the time to resolve – I’m confident I could produce
> something, I’m just not 100% familiar with the legal side, and how we go
> about including content that is obviously not 100% original.****
>  ****
> What do people think? If someone more qualified is keen to take this on,
> then please don’t hesitate, but I do like a challenge.****
>  ****
> Regards****
>  ****
> Herbie****
>  ****
> eMail: kevin.blackburn1 at ntlworld.com****
> P Please consider the environment before printing this eMail - thanks****
>  ****
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] *On Behalf Of *Christian
> Semmens****
>
> *Sent:* 04 February 2013 13:21****
> *To:* Standard Cornish discussion list****
> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] Place-Names & maps****
>  ****
>
> I think that is an excellent idea Herbie, a folded map and a poster size
> one would be great... All we need is an artist.  :)****
> Christian****
>
>  ****
> On 4 February 2013 12:35, Herbie Blackburn <kevin.blackburn1 at ntlworld.com>
> wrote:****
> Excited to have received my copy of Craig’s ‘A Concise Dictionary of
> Cornish Place-Names’. Looks very comprehensive and well researched, and
> looking forward to reading it and then having it by for reference.****
> Following on from the maps’ emails, any thought of producing a Cornish
> Place-Name Map based on the contents of this book? It could be a great
> additional asset, and may even be an attractive tourist souvenir if pitched
> right. I could imagine picking one up at one of those many whirly book/card
> stands in the shops of Cornwall, especially it had the air of authenticity
> the book has.****
> Regards****
> Herbie****
> eMail: kevin.blackburn1 at ntlworld.com****
> P Please consider the environment before printing this eMail - thanks****
>  ****
>
>
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-- 
Kevin 'Herbie' Blackburn
Sent from my WebMail
tel: 07791193602
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