[Spellyans] cledh etc

Janice Lobb janicelobb at gmail.com
Sun Jan 13 20:39:07 GMT 2013


I do so agree. So, I would like a compromise solution that takes more
notice of the requirements of LC. To my mind the discussion regarding the
merits/demerits of KS/KK/UCR/UC completely sidelines LC. Or maybe I'm just
paranoid. KS comes closest but not close enough. Why do you suppose so many
LC speakers have fallen by the wayside?


On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Chris Parkinson <brynbow at btinternet.com>wrote:

> **
> Nicholas writes that the trouble with using LC as the basis for the
> revival is that it cuts learners off from the bulk of Cornish literature.
> You could argue that using the scribal tradition, i.e. the written
> language, prevents learners from acquiring a fluent spoken language. Lhuyd
> has given us the main approximation we have to the spoken language when
> last used. Speech is primary in language, both historically and in L1
> learning. Literary forms normally come later in an educational setting. LC
> users, by following Lhuyd  to a large extent, follow this order of
> development. So what is needed is indeed an orthography which recognises
> the close relation between  written and spoken Cornish. Of course they are
> the same language! But LC users are finding that although both KS and
> SWFL make allowances for the written/spoken distinction they are not
> enough, and also there is still occasionally the suggestion that the
> primary spoken language is somehow sub-standard.
>
> Chris
>
> *From:* Nicholas Williams <njawilliams at gmail.com>
> *To:* Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:31 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] cledh etc
>
> Middle and Late Cornish are not different languages. Indeed some of the
> features which we associate with LC are found in the Passion Poem,
> e.g. genama 'with me', ve for me 'I', danon for danvon, ze wy for dhywgh
> why, etc.
> The trouble with using LC as the basis for the revival is that it cuts
> learners off from the bulk of Cornish literature.
> KS is designed to allow a variety of pronunciations, both Middle and Late,
> within the same system.
> The Creation of the World is the latest text to use something like the
> traditional orthography but is sufficiently
> late to be recognisable to the users of LC. That is why KS uses CW as its
> starting point.
>
> Nicholas
>
>  On 13 Jan 2013, at 13:51, Janice Lobb wrote:
>
> Isn't this part of the problem? Some of you see this as contemporaneous
> with the scribes, while those of us who favour Modern Cornish see this as
> the time when the language was LAST spoken (which is presumably closer to
> what it would sound like now had it not died out). I don't care how
> consonants are written, I'll go along with traditional or Lhuydian graphs,
> but the vowels make me tear my hair out!
>
>
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