[Spellyans] cleudh etc

Michael Everson everson at evertype.com
Tue Jan 15 19:14:05 GMT 2013

On 15 Jan 2013, at 18:38, Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com> wrote:

> On Jan 15, 2013, at 5:14 PM, Michael Everson wrote:
>> On Jan 14, 2013, at 11:51 AM, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:
>>> Cornish texts are of course the primary basis. The point is that there are not enough of them. The fact that the word cleudh does not happen to occur in Middle Cornish texts does not mean that it would not have had an /œ/ vowel in that period.
>> It certainly is not evidence that it *did* have that vowel. 
> But there is. And I have provided it earlier in the form of place-names. Also ‹cledh› can only arrive at this form by way of */klœð/.

You referred to Craig's "Cargloth" rewritten Ker Gleudhyn, attested Cargluthan (and I don't know how else attested). But Craig said he did not agree that there were grounds for ‹eu› in this word:

On 12 Jan 2013, at 12:28, Craig Weatherhill <craig at agantavas.org> wrote:

> In my own view, there's no call for -eu- in this word (SWF, KK), other than the fact that Breton has <kleuz> (Welsh has <clawdd>).  There's not much sign of it before the Late Cornish period.
> It's <cleath> in CW and <kledh> in Lhuyd.  There is just one -eu- in place-name spellings - the Bolster Bank, St Agnes was Cleuth 1602, Cleath, Clay 1733; Kleth 1740; Cleath, Kleth 1778.
> It also occurs in the compounds  mengleth "quarry"; and mongleth, "open-cast mine".

On 13 Jan 2013, at 09:45, Craig Weatherhill <craig at agantavas.org> wrote:

> <oe> in words like <goen> (goon) is very commonly found, but this isn't the case with <eu> in cledh.  There is just a single instance, which might have been a scribal mistake.  Had there been more instances, then I'd have to agree with you, but they aren't there.

If I recall correctly, the -eu- in Ker Gleudhyn is there only because in his Concise Dictionary Craig was erring on the side of conformance with the SWF. I surmise that he would prefer Ker Gledhyn. But I cannot speak for him. 

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

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