[Spellyans] use usage etc

A. J. Trim ajtrim at msn.com
Sat Jan 26 22:57:15 GMT 2013


I'm not in favour of this.

I believe that diacritical marks are very useful but (a) need to be optional, and (b) need to be minimised.

Diacritical marks need to be optional because some people don't want them, they are difficult to type with an English keyboard (especially on mobile devices), they still get misinterpreted by electronic systems such as databases, browsers and e-mail systems, and they are a departure from the Traditional Cornish texts (and most Revived Cornish texts.)

Diacritical marks should be minimised so that there will be least objection to using them.


The most common use for <u> in SWF Cornish is /y~i/. Therefore, this should be written <u>, e.g. <tus>. Yes, I agree that this has to be learnt, and it would be easier to learn if it were written <ü>. Unfortunately, that puts a lot more diacritical marks into your texts. I advise against this.

I would use <ü> for SWF <eu>, i.e. for the rarer and more contentious sound.

I agree that /u/ should be <û> when stressed (e.g. <Lûk>, <Kernûek> but <kernewegor>), and this can be extended to the exceptional case of the /iu/ in <ûsya>.
I would write the noun <ûs> if the <-s> is [-z].
If you wish to say [-s], you should write <ûce> with a silent <-e>, like "juice" in English. It's a borrowing so need not completely obey the Cornish rules.

That leaves KS <ù>. I would write this <v>, e.g. <arlvth>, <lvck>, <pvp>, <vnderstondya>, <bvff>, <pvbonan>, <vnctya>. This is initially startlingly strange but you soon get use to it. It reduces the number of diacritical marks, it looks less English (important to some), and it avoids falsely thinking that the letter is stressed.


Regards,

Andrew J. Trim



> From: daniel at ryan-prohaska.com
> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:20:40 +0100
> To: spellyans at kernowek.net
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] use usage etc
> 
> 
> On Jan 26, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:
> 
> > I am very much in favour of this. I know that /y~i/ is more frequent than /u/, but it is the <u> grapheme for /y~i/ which causes problems for learners.
> 
> Thanks. I also feel that the two dots over the ‹ü› may be a visual adjunct to ‹i› with one dot. Also, ‹ü› is used in a few other languages for their respective /y(:)/. Furthermore, it is familiar to Cornish as Nance used ‹ü› for the sound in UC teaching and reference material.   
> 
> 
> > <ü> for /y~i/ and <u> for /u/ means getting rid of the misleading diacritic in unstressed syllables: <arluth> rather than <arlùth>, which to many suggests stress on the final syllable.
> > 
> 
> I agree. That throws me, though there will be a few cases of ‹ü› in unstressed syllables, too, especially in the adjective ending ‹-üs›. 
> Dan 
> 
> > Steve
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] On Behalf Of Daniel Prohaska
> > Sent: 26 January 2013 15:26
> > To: Standard Cornish discussion list
> > Subject: Re: [Spellyans] use usage etc
> > 
> > A very good question. For the SFW Review I'm proposing <û> as the graph for this lexical set. My proposal thus has two vowels with a diacritic marker: the afore mentioned <û> for /iu/ in loan words and <ü> for RMC /y/ ~ RLC /i/ (e.g. <tüs>).
> > Dan
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 26.01.2013, at 15:04, Janice Lobb <janicelobb at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> SWF has usyans
> >> Dick has (amongst other things) ius
> >> How can I achieve Dick's pronunciation with a spelling that is compatible with SWF/KS?
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