[Spellyans] use usage etc

Janice Lobb janicelobb at gmail.com
Sun Jan 27 09:26:32 GMT 2013


It's all very well saying something has to be learnt - what bothers me is
how to read a word the first time I come across it. If I get it wrong first
time around I may continue to get it wrong, especially if there is nobody
on hand to put me right. I suppose that once the "rules" are set I will be
able to learn them, and teach them, but whether it's a diacritic over the
letter u or the letter v written instead of the letter u (novel idea, by
the way) I definitely need something. And I doubt if I am alone.
Jan


On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 10:57 PM, A. J. Trim <ajtrim at msn.com> wrote:

> I'm not in favour of this.
>
> I believe that diacritical marks are very useful but (a) need to be
> optional, and (b) need to be minimised.
>
> Diacritical marks need to be optional because some people don't want them,
> they are difficult to type with an English keyboard (especially on mobile
> devices), they still get misinterpreted by electronic systems such as
> databases, browsers and e-mail systems, and they are a departure from the
> Traditional Cornish texts (and most Revived Cornish texts.)
>
> Diacritical marks should be minimised so that there will be least
> objection to using them.
>
>
> The most common use for <u> in SWF Cornish is /y~i/. Therefore, this
> should be written <u>, e.g. <tus>. Yes, I agree that this has to be learnt,
> and it would be easier to learn if it were written <ü>. Unfortunately, that
> puts a lot more diacritical marks into your texts. I advise against this.
>
> I would use <ü> for SWF <eu>, i.e. for the rarer and more contentious
> sound.
>
> I agree that /u/ should be <û> when stressed (e.g. <Lûk>, <Kernûek> but
> <kernewegor>), and this can be extended to the exceptional case of the /iu/
> in <ûsya>.
> I would write the noun <ûs> if the <-s> is [-z].
> If you wish to say [-s], you should write <ûce> with a silent <-e>, like
> "juice" in English. It's a borrowing so need not completely obey the
> Cornish rules.
>
> That leaves KS <ù>. I would write this <v>, e.g. <arlvth>, <lvck>, <pvp>,
> <vnderstondya>, <bvff>, <pvbonan>, <vnctya>. This is initially startlingly
> strange but you soon get use to it. It reduces the number of diacritical
> marks, it looks less English (important to some), and it avoids falsely
> thinking that the letter is stressed.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrew J. Trim
>
>
>
> > From: daniel at ryan-prohaska.com
> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:20:40 +0100
> > To: spellyans at kernowek.net
>
> > Subject: Re: [Spellyans] use usage etc
> >
> >
> > On Jan 26, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:
> >
> > > I am very much in favour of this. I know that /y~i/ is more frequent
> than /u/, but it is the <u> grapheme for /y~i/ which causes problems for
> learners.
> >
> > Thanks. I also feel that the two dots over the ‹ü› may be a visual
> adjunct to ‹i› with one dot. Also, ‹ü› is used in a few other languages for
> their respective /y(:)/. Furthermore, it is familiar to Cornish as Nance
> used ‹ü› for the sound in UC teaching and reference material.
> >
> >
> > > <ü> for /y~i/ and <u> for /u/ means getting rid of the misleading
> diacritic in unstressed syllables: <arluth> rather than <arlùth>, which to
> many suggests stress on the final syllable.
> > >
> >
> > I agree. That throws me, though there will be a few cases of ‹ü› in
> unstressed syllables, too, especially in the adjective ending ‹-üs›.
> > Dan
> >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] On Behalf Of
> Daniel Prohaska
> > > Sent: 26 January 2013 15:26
> > > To: Standard Cornish discussion list
> > > Subject: Re: [Spellyans] use usage etc
> > >
> > > A very good question. For the SFW Review I'm proposing <û> as the
> graph for this lexical set. My proposal thus has two vowels with a
> diacritic marker: the afore mentioned <û> for /iu/ in loan words and <ü>
> for RMC /y/ ~ RLC /i/ (e.g. <tüs>).
> > > Dan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 26.01.2013, at 15:04, Janice Lobb <janicelobb at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> SWF has usyans
> > >> Dick has (amongst other things) ius
> > >> How can I achieve Dick's pronunciation with a spelling that is
> compatible with SWF/KS?
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