[Spellyans] use usage etc

Janice Lobb janicelobb at gmail.com
Sun Jan 27 13:41:30 GMT 2013


I'm sure you are right. I should get it - when I'm not broke! I'm currently
writing a story in which the great granny speaks MC and the kids speak LC
(though I struggle with the spelling)
Jan


On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Craig Weatherhill <craig at agantavas.org>wrote:

> Jan, have you seen "Treasure Island", translated by Nicholas and published
> by Michael?  You'd like it.  The gentrified figures speak Tudor/Jacobean
> Cornish, but all the pirates speak in Late Cornish (all managed by KS).
>
> Craig
>
>
> On 2013 Gen 27, at 12:40, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
>
> I have to say that, by far, the easiest system to read is KS.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On 2013 Gen 27, at 09:26, Janice Lobb wrote:
>
> It's all very well saying something has to be learnt - what bothers me is
> how to read a word the first time I come across it. If I get it wrong first
> time around I may continue to get it wrong, especially if there is nobody
> on hand to put me right. I suppose that once the "rules" are set I will be
> able to learn them, and teach them, but whether it's a diacritic over the
> letter u or the letter v written instead of the letter u (novel idea, by
> the way) I definitely need something. And I doubt if I am alone.
> Jan
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 10:57 PM, A. J. Trim <ajtrim at msn.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not in favour of this.
>>
>> I believe that diacritical marks are very useful but (a) need to be
>> optional, and (b) need to be minimised.
>>
>> Diacritical marks need to be optional because some people don't want
>> them, they are difficult to type with an English keyboard (especially on
>> mobile devices), they still get misinterpreted by electronic systems such
>> as databases, browsers and e-mail systems, and they are a departure from
>> the Traditional Cornish texts (and most Revived Cornish texts.)
>>
>> Diacritical marks should be minimised so that there will be least
>> objection to using them.
>>
>>
>> The most common use for <u> in SWF Cornish is /y~i/. Therefore, this
>> should be written <u>, e.g. <tus>. Yes, I agree that this has to be learnt,
>> and it would be easier to learn if it were written <ü>. Unfortunately, that
>> puts a lot more diacritical marks into your texts. I advise against this.
>>
>> I would use <ü> for SWF <eu>, i.e. for the rarer and more contentious
>> sound.
>>
>> I agree that /u/ should be <û> when stressed (e.g. <Lûk>, <Kernûek> but
>> <kernewegor>), and this can be extended to the exceptional case of the /iu/
>> in <ûsya>.
>> I would write the noun <ûs> if the <-s> is [-z].
>> If you wish to say [-s], you should write <ûce> with a silent <-e>, like
>> "juice" in English. It's a borrowing so need not completely obey the
>> Cornish rules.
>>
>> That leaves KS <ù>. I would write this <v>, e.g. <arlvth>, <lvck>, <pvp>,
>> <vnderstondya>, <bvff>, <pvbonan>, <vnctya>. This is initially startlingly
>> strange but you soon get use to it. It reduces the number of diacritical
>> marks, it looks less English (important to some), and it avoids falsely
>> thinking that the letter is stressed.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Andrew J. Trim
>>
>>
>>
>> > From: daniel at ryan-prohaska.com
>> > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:20:40 +0100
>> > To: spellyans at kernowek.net
>>
>> > Subject: Re: [Spellyans] use usage etc
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jan 26, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:
>> >
>> > > I am very much in favour of this. I know that /y~i/ is more frequent
>> than /u/, but it is the <u> grapheme for /y~i/ which causes problems for
>> learners.
>> >
>> > Thanks. I also feel that the two dots over the ‹ü› may be a visual
>> adjunct to ‹i› with one dot. Also, ‹ü› is used in a few other languages for
>> their respective /y(:)/. Furthermore, it is familiar to Cornish as Nance
>> used ‹ü› for the sound in UC teaching and reference material.
>> >
>> >
>> > > <ü> for /y~i/ and <u> for /u/ means getting rid of the misleading
>> diacritic in unstressed syllables: <arluth> rather than <arlùth>, which to
>> many suggests stress on the final syllable.
>> > >
>> >
>> > I agree. That throws me, though there will be a few cases of ‹ü› in
>> unstressed syllables, too, especially in the adjective ending ‹-üs›.
>> > Dan
>> >
>> > > Steve
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] On Behalf Of
>> Daniel Prohaska
>> > > Sent: 26 January 2013 15:26
>> > > To: Standard Cornish discussion list
>> > > Subject: Re: [Spellyans] use usage etc
>> > >
>> > > A very good question. For the SFW Review I'm proposing <û> as the
>> graph for this lexical set. My proposal thus has two vowels with a
>> diacritic marker: the afore mentioned <û> for /iu/ in loan words and <ü>
>> for RMC /y/ ~ RLC /i/ (e.g. <tüs>).
>> > > Dan
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 26.01.2013, at 15:04, Janice Lobb <janicelobb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> SWF has usyans
>> > >> Dick has (amongst other things) ius
>> > >> How can I achieve Dick's pronunciation with a spelling that is
>> compatible with SWF/KS?
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