[Spellyans] tavas

A. J. Trim ajtrim at msn.com
Tue May 14 16:44:59 IST 2013


I'm a bit confused as to what we are saying matters, and what doesn't. Recent postings have suggested that the <e> in SWF <taves> may really be an <a>/<o>, and we hear that the <v> may be a <w>.

The "MAGA English-Cornish Glossary SWF (Trad Graphs) 14-Aug-10.pdf" has:


Page 39:
quiet, I adj, cosel; tawesek; dison; II n, cosoleth (m);
taw (m).

Page 45:
silent, adj, tawesek; be silent, phr, tewel.

Page 49:
talcative, adj, tavosek.


Clearly, <tawesek> is similar to <tavosek> but the meanings given are opposites. Either this is a mistake or either the <v>/<w> or the <e>/<o> (or both) must be significant to the meaning. Are these words attested, or were they “made up”? Should we loose one of them, and use another word instead? Perhaps these words should be <tawek> and <tavasek> to remove the difficulty.


Regards,

Andrew J. Trim



From: Hewitt, Stephen 
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Standard Cornish discussion list 
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] tavas

That’s quite simply not true – we have an awful lot of information – the forms attested in various stages of the language plus similar forms from two sister languages (both still with native speakers). An awful lot can be reconstructed with considerable confidence.

 

Steve

 

From: Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] On Behalf Of Craig Weatherhill
Sent: 14 May 2013 16:39
To: Standard Cornish discussion list
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] tavas

 

To be honest (and I'm not a linguist) but etymology seems to be very much "in the eye of the beholder".  One can argue that a particular word was spelt in a particular way in early Brythonic - but was it?  That language was never written down, and can only be guessed at from a few examples of evidence from Gaulish, and from what Roman and Greek sources wrote down.   All we really have are words which have been theoretically reconstructed in modern times, which is why they are always preceded by a superscript asterisk.

 

Craig

 

 

 

 

On 2013 Me 14, at 15:13, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:





In general, it is very difficult to have an orthography which brings together various diachronic and geographic varieties which is not etymological.

 

I don’t really understand the persistent bias against etymology in this group. My etymological orthography for Breton builds on the interdialectal (S-SS) orthography, and works much the best of all systems to accomodate predictable dialect reflexes with a minimum of spelling variation.

 

Isn’t that the goal of the SWF?

 

Best,

 

Steve

 

From: Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] On Behalf Of Daniel Prohaska
Sent: 14 May 2013 16:10
To: Standard Cornish discussion list
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] tavas

 

As you and I have said, ‹taves› is also found in the texts, and thus fulfils the criteria for the SWF. Now, one can argue over whether it is wise to have an orthography that is based on etymology but that is a different discussion entirely.

Dan

 

 

On May 14, 2013, at 4:03 PM, Nicholas Williams wrote:






We all know the etymology, Dan. My point is that the phonetic environment appears to have cause the word to develop in a slightly anomalous fashion.

Tavas, tavosow are the forms in the texts. They should be the forms in the SWF. Etymology per se is no counter argument.

 

Nicholas

 

On 14 May 2013, at 14:57, Daniel Prohaska wrote:






I sympathise with those who wish to keep the spelling ‹tavas› from Unified Cornish. But I would rather redirect the energy and impetus of SWF-reviewing to more pressing issues. There is nothing "wrong" with the spelling ‹taves› "except" that it is the form used in KK. It is attested as such in the texts as well as being the etymologically expected form. 

 

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