[Spellyans] hir/fur + tus

Ray Chubb ray at spyrys.org
Thu May 16 09:48:20 IST 2013


Gromercy Dan,

This word appears to be systematically mispronounced by users of  
Common Cornish as 'teus' even though the phonetic instructions in  
Gerlyver Meur are quite clear. Perhaps there is a case for spelling it  
'tees' in the SWF and any other words that are giving rise to the same  
mispronunciation.

On 16 Me 2013, at 09:29, Daniel Prohaska wrote:

> [ti:z] "teez"
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 16.05.2013, at 10:26, Ray Chubb <ray at spyrys.org> wrote:
>
>> How is 'tus' rendered in Late Cornish?
>>
>> On 16 Me 2013, at 09:04, Jon Mills wrote:
>>
>>> Using Late Cornish spellings such as "heer" and "feer" that  
>>> wouldn't be a problem. The SWF is certainly less friendly to RLC  
>>> learners than it is to RMC learners. Is something more equitable  
>>> needed?
>>> Ol an gwella,
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Janice Lobb
>>>> Sent: 05/15/13 04:02 PM
>>>> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
>>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] tavas
>>>>
>>>> You say "In KK melin and gwelyn rhyme perfectly, but are spelt  
>>>> differently for etymological reasons." A problem I have in  
>>>> teaching Late Cornish is explaining that "hir" and "fur" rhyme
>>>> Jan
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 4:44 PM, Nicholas Williams <njawilliams at gmail.com 
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> The two cases are completely different. The Breton dialects are  
>>>> known and understood.
>>>> In the case of Cornish the spellings are all we have to go on.  
>>>> There are no speakers.
>>>> Of course standard forms of spoken languages use etymological  
>>>> spellings in order to arrive at hyperdialects acceptable to all.
>>>> In the case of Cornish, however, the question of taves is not a  
>>>> matter of dialect, but rather a question of how the now extinct  
>>>> language developed. Taves
>>>> is a possible etymological spelling, but so for that matter is  
>>>> tavas, since the expected e hardly occurs at all in the texts. We  
>>>> have a rule that OC oe is not unrounded in certain environments.  
>>>> The unstressed vowel is almost invariably
>>>> a and I suggest that this is a result of the labial immediately  
>>>> preceding. That tavas not taves was the attested form is further  
>>>> suggested by the plural.
>>>> The orthography of Breton, though interesting, is not relevant.
>>>> The bias against etymological spellings understandable. In KK  
>>>> melin and gwelyn rhyme perfectly, but are spelt differently for  
>>>> etymological reasons.
>>>> Not only does this violate the phonemic principle, it also makes  
>>>> learning the orthography much more difficult.
>>>> The SWF is a new orthography and it is a great pity that it  
>>>> should be burdened with the incubus of etymological (but non- 
>>>> phonemic spellings) taken holus
>>>> bolus from an orthography which has been found wanting.
>>>>
>>>> Nicholas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 14 May 2013, at 15:13, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don’t really understand the persistent bias against etymology  
>>>>> in this group. My etymological orthography for Breton builds on  
>>>>> the interdialectal (S-SS) orthography, and works much the best  
>>>>> of all systems to accomodate predictable dialect reflexes with a  
>>>>> minimum of spelling variation.
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _____________________________________
>>> Dr. Jon Mills,
>>> University of Kent
>>> http://kent.academia.edu/JonMills  
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Spellyans mailing list
>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>
>> Ray Chubb
>>
>> Portreth
>> Kernow
>>
>> Agan Tavas web site:  www.agantavas.com
>>
>>
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Ray Chubb

Portreth
Kernow

Agan Tavas web site:  www.agantavas.com


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