[Spellyans] orthography

Linus Band linusband at gmail.com
Wed Nov 13 10:02:33 GMT 2013


West-Frisian isn't doing too bad, but it could be doing a lot better. There
are multiple dialects, which are mutually intelligible, for as far as I
know. I've heard Frisian speakers tell me that the number of speakers is at
300.000-350.000, but according to the 2001 census there should be about
470.000, of which I do not know how fluent they were/are.
West-Frisian orthography is a tad more difficult and
traditional/etymological than the Dutch one (if that comparison helps at
all). There are no spelling wars going on there, though people didn't
really like the last tweakings to it (but then again, rarely are people
happy about changes to spelling, in my opinion). The language is heavily
influenced by Dutch, and, as one would expect, more so in the spoken
language than in the written one.
Apart from Frisian speakers switching to Dutch, the main problems are that
few people can write the language, since Frisian is often taught by
incompetent teachers or just an hour a week, and that it isn't very visible
in daily life. Yes, the placenames are all shown bilingually, but it is not
like in Wales where signage is almost always bilingual. You won't hear
announcements in the train, for example, in Dutch AND Frisian, like you
hear it in Welsh and English in Wales (I'm not sure how this is in
South-Wales, though). If you go to Friesland, you will hear Frisian being
spoken, especially in the more rural areas. In most cities Stadsfries (City
Frisian) is traditionally spoken, which is a heavily relexified version of
Frisian. I married into a Frisian family who speak Stadsfries, which is
really interesting. My grandfather in law is a native Frisian speaker, and
since he and my grandmother in law know I have an interest in their
language they often send me articles about Frisian or books in Frisian. As
a Dutch speaker, I can understand much of it, but it does take getting used
to. Especially the core vocabulary is very different.
Frisian used to span from the Dutch province of Holland (of which the
eastern part is still called West-Friesland interestingly) all the way
along the coast until present day Denmark. East-Frisian has died out, apart
from Saterland Frisian, which owes its survival to its isolated position in
the swamps. I don't know too much about the North Frisian languages, apart
from that they are not doing well.

Mei freonlike groetnis,
Linus


2013/11/12 Dai Hawkins <dafydd at inbox.com>

>  Friesian is below my radar, sorry!
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* butlerdunnit at ntlworld.com
> *Sent:* Tue, 12 Nov 2013 20:35:46 -0000
> *To:* spellyans at kernowek.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] orthography
>
> Dai, and others!
>
> Out of pure interest, but do you know the status of Friesian orthography
> and indeed the state of that language in general?
> I ask because it has been mentioned in connection with a series of crime
> novels I have been reading, set in Hamburg and featuring a half Scot/half
> German detective!
>
> Ewan.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Dai Hawkins <dafydd at inbox.com>
> *To:* Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 12, 2013 1:24 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] orthography
>
> Lived for a time in Karpfham i R.,Niederbayern, five km from the
> Mili/Muichgrenze.  also had a lot of contact with Zwiesel, so I expect
> there's some influence there, too.  Karpfham, with about 500 inhabitants,
> holds Bavaria's their largest Bierfest (after Minga and Straubing.  What
> part of Austria are you from?
> I'm fascinated by problems of orthography, and am a great believer (with
> some qualifications) in historic orthography as opposed to phonetic
> orthography. This is still an issue in e.g Occitan, Romansch.
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> *From:* daniel at ryan-prohaska.com
> *Sent:* Mon, 11 Nov 2013 11:54:39 +0100
> *To:* spellyans at kernowek.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] orthography
>
>  I couldn't resist, thanks group, for indulging. I'm actually Austrian,
> but our dialects are sufficiently close, especially along the border… How
> did you get to learn Bavarian?
> Dan
>
>
>  On Nov 11, 2013, at 1:41 AM, Dai Hawkins wrote:
>
>  Ah mei!  Des giebds aa!  Des hob i ned vuagseng ghobt, besondrs in diasn
> Grubbn!
> Sometimes it's fun to be upstaged! :)
> OIs guade aa!
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> *From:* daniel at ryan-prohaska.com
> *Sent:* Mon, 11 Nov 2013 01:17:04 +0100
> *To:* spellyans at kernowek.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] orthography
>
>  Servus, Dai!
> Wånst Boarisch redn konnst, vastehst mi jå. I wui da nua sogn, dåss' schee
> is, dåsst jetz aa in insra Gruppm dabei bist!
> Ois guad!
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 10.11.2013, at 22:36, Dai Hawkins <dafydd at inbox.com> wrote:
>
>  Sh'mae bawb! I'm called Dai Hawkins and speak fluent English, Welsh and
> Bavarian. I have a great interest in orthography, particularly in minority
> languages, and over the years have followed the debates on this topic with
> regard to Cornish and Occitan with great interest.
> My chief connection with Cornish is that I often visited Cornwall in the
> 1940s and 50s (my great-aunt lived in Lanner, and there were family friends
> in Par), and spent a short time as a pupil in Tywardreath junior school.
> Cyfarchion cynnes o Gymru!
> ------------------------------
> [image: Try IM ToolPack] <http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if3> *Send
> your photos by email in seconds...*
> *Try FREE IM ToolPack* at www.imtoolpack.com<http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if3>
> Works in all emails, instant messengers, blogs, forums and social networks.
>
>  _______________________________________________
> Spellyans mailing list
> Spellyans at kernowek.net
> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Try IM ToolPack] <http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if5> *Try
> FREE IM ToolPack* at www.imtoolpack.com<http://www.imtoolpack.com/default.aspx?rc=if5>
> Capture screenshots, upload images, edit and send them to your friends
> through IMs, post on Twitter®, Facebook®, MySpace™, LinkedIn® – FAST!
> _______________________________________________
> Spellyans mailing list
> Spellyans at kernowek.net
> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Free Online Photosharing - Share your photos online with your friends and
> family!
> Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Spellyans mailing list
> Spellyans at kernowek.net
> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>
> ------------------------------
>  [image: 3D Earth Screensaver Preview] <http://www.inbox.com/earth>
> *Free 3D Earth Screensaver*
> Watch the Earth right on your desktop! Check it out at www.inbox.com/earth
>
> _______________________________________________
> Spellyans mailing list
> Spellyans at kernowek.net
> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://kernowek.net/pipermail/spellyans_kernowek.net/attachments/20131113/4582a303/attachment-0001.html>


More information about the Spellyans mailing list