[Spellyans] SWF Review

Daniel Prohaska daniel at ryan-prohaska.com
Fri Oct 4 14:30:48 IST 2013


It's going there.. fast, judging by what I heard was decided in the last meeting…. 
Dan



On Oct 4, 2013, at 3:13 PM, Craig Weatherhill wrote:

> It has concerned me from the start that assurances we were given at an Agan Tavas AGM right after Treyarnon, re. the role of the traditional graphs, have not been honoured, nor have the deals struck by Andrew on our behalf at Treyarnon been honoured.
> 
> Nothing that MAGA produces features them, and it's needlessly alienating a significant proportion of Cornish users.
> With historic place-names, I'm keeping a running list of decisions in both SWF/M and SWF/T because MAGA is not doing so for the latter.  I'm now the only Trad. user associated with the Panel.
> Surely it can't be that hard for MAGA.  After all, there are only 5 orthographical differences between M and T, and one of those (X-KS) is pretty rare.
> 
> I still remain concerned that Review Board members are lacking in the skills needed for the job.  They're well-meaning enthusiasts, but there it ends.  There are no linguists or anyone who can put forward sound linguistic arguments, or be informed enough to give linguistic judgements.
> I haven't a clue how the Board was chosen or what criteria was applied.
> 
> I've been battling on, hoping for the best, but is the Partnership giving of its best?  To all users of Cornish?  There, I'm afraid, my faith is fading.  I hope to hell we don't end up back in the bad old days, but I fear it's heading that way.  I'd hate to think that divisiveness is the intention, but it's likely to be the effect unless some serious thought gets applied.
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
> 
> On 2013 Hed 4, at 13:42, Christian Semmens wrote:
> 
>> I would put money on exactly that outcome.
>> 
>> I suspect that if the Cussel and Agan Tavas "recognise" the SWF, and by that I mean if they do not explicitly reject using it, then that will effectively be the end of traditional graphs in mainstream Cornish in the long term. Any acceptance of the SWF will automatically require the primacy of KK spelling. I do not have faith in academic acceptance or lack thereof being the determining factor of the future form. De facto usage will do that and that is based upon the availability of learning materials and teachers. The depreciation of the traditional forms will ensure that trad graphs are not part of that funded effort. The deck will be stacked against us.
>> 
>>  To be honest, I think that is worse than the old war, at least then the playing field was level.
>> 
>> Christian
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 4 October 2013 11:39, Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com> wrote:
>> They haven't even corrected the speling mistakes and typos in the document… v. sad. The Review is looking worse and worse. I fear we'll be getting some kind of "broken KK".
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 3, 2013, at 9:14 PM, Michael Everson wrote:
>> 
>> > On 24 Sep 2013, at 07:25, Philip Newton <philip.newton at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I recently received the following message (indirectly) from MAGA, concerning the review of the SWF.
>> >
>> > I received it to. It is another example of MAGA's poor management of the SWF review.
>> >
>> >> The Excel file is a slightly expanded and clarified version of the "Collated issues for SWF review" document that I have seen before; it provides a little bit more information about the occasionally extremely brief headers ("varying vowel & consonant values" -- what, precisely, is the problem of the submitter? etc.) in that document, and also contains suggested resolutions for each point.
>> >
>> > It is completely inadequate. I have asked Jenefer Lowe directly and on the MAGA Corpus list, to provide the complete text of the issues as reported by those who sent in their concerns.
>> >
>> > I know as much about Cornish phonology and orthography as anyone. I was asked to comment on the brief draft of the "Collated issues for SWF review" and I refused to do so, because it would be a waste of time, since every bit of it is context-free and it would be guesswork. I asked for the full text of the submissions, suitably anonymized, so that I could prepare a report on it which would be accurate and give good advice. With complete data, I could say why x was a good idea, why y was a bad idea, why implementing z would have a knock-on effect that would imply other changes, and so on. WIth complete data, I would be able to give concrete recommendations to the SWF Review board, which they could accept or reject.
>> >
>> > But instead we have been given "a slightly expanded and clarified version". This is NO BETTER than the original. It still obliges a linguistic expert to GUESS at the thinking behind the submissions. That is a waste of time.
>> >
>> > I still do not understand why MAGA is treating the issues as some sort of State secret. Frankly I don't believe that the list has only been seen by the members of the Review Board. It is very difficult to believe that the list has not been (privately) circulated to the members of the Kesva, who are able to advise their representatives on the Review Board. On our side of the table, however, we have played by the rules, and we have not seen the document. We have asked for the document, and we have been refused.
>> >
>> > Why is this, Jenefer Lowe? Why the secrecy? What is MAGA afraid of? Is MAGA afraid that real external linguists will give real input to the SWF Review process? I assure you, real external linguists will review the results of the SWF Review process, just as we did five years ago when the first SWF specification was published. MAGA has done a great job keeping real linguists from the table. Without proper advice, the SWF Review board can hardly be expected to produce a satisfactory result.
>> >
>> > Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
>> >
>> >
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