[Spellyans] The two roles of â (a-circumflex) in Kernowek Standard

Linus Band linusband at gmail.com
Thu Sep 19 13:26:06 IST 2013


Well, the online dictionary has been in planning since the SWF came out.
They've had something like 'an online searchable version will be appearing
soon' on their website for ages. Like Pat said, it probably won't be too
much of a hassle for them to modify it, and they did state when suggestions
for the SWF were being accepted that it was for the purpose of ironing the
system out. So I don't think that there'll be too many changes. I'm curious
what the outcome will be!


2013/9/19 Christian Semmens <christian.semmens at gmail.com>

> I suspect (backed up with conversations I had this Summer) that they
> aren't expecting very much, except the confirmation of the secondary /
> ghetto nature of the SWF/T.
>
> Whilst they protest that you can use any form of Cornish you like, that
> isn't the point. Of course you can. However, for the ***SWF*** to be
> anything more than KK with the 'system' removed, but apparently keeping the
> pronunciation and (largely) the spelling, it needs to do more than pay
> lip-service to traditional graphs. I suspect that this is not the case.
>
> If that is the case, then SWF/T will be an also-ran, hidden, a Cinderell
> to its bigger ugly sister. Left in the dark to wither and die. And to us,
> utterly useless, worse, in that state, to use it would be self defeating.
>
> We'll see.
>
> Christian
>
>
> On 19 September 2013 10:57, Craig Weatherhill <craig at agantavas.org> wrote:
>
>> Why has MAGA produced a new dictionary while the review is under way?
>>  Surely it would make more sense to produce one afterwards, when the review
>> results are known.  Unless MAGA knows something that we don't.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2013 Gwn 19, at 10:19, Christian Semmens wrote:
>>
>> Maga has a new SWF dictionary with IPA, but the pronunciation for RMC is
>> pretty much KK.
>>
>> Also I note that the IPA fro both RMC and RLC seems to specify that all
>> words with an r in them should be pronounced as fully rolled [r] with no
>> mention of [ɹ] or [ɾ] in any words that I looked at.
>>
>> However, I have looked at a lot of IPA in other Cornish dictionaries
>> after I noticed this and most seem to specify [r], so am I misunderstanding
>> the sound of [r]? Or are we really being asked to pronounce Cornish 'r's
>> rolled?
>>
>> http://www.cornishdictionary.org.uk/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19 September 2013 09:22, Craig Weatherhill <craig at agantavas.org>wrote:
>>
>>> I stand a good chance of getting the review to reintroduce <au> for
>>> personal names and loan words such as <cauns, dans, etc>.  Being the only
>>> voice for traditional Cornish on MAGA's Signage Panel, I succeeded in
>>> getting the Panel to keep <au> for archaic personal names (usually saint's
>>> names).
>>>
>>> KK was never consistent with this.  You saw: Ostell, but also Mownan.
>>> SWF signage will have Austel, Maunan, etc.
>>>
>>> However, I'm not happy with the closed nature of this review.
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2013 Gwn 18, at 21:30, Michael Everson wrote:
>>>
>>> > On 16 Sep 2013, at 11:30, Philip Newton <philip.newton at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Or is it too late to change KS?
>>> >
>>> > What do you think? Here is the word-count of titles published or soon
>>> to be published in this orthography:
>>> >
>>> > Adro dhe'n Bÿs in Peswar Ugas Dëdh     7,105
>>> > Alys in Pow an Anethow                30,800
>>> > An Beybel Sans                       784,946
>>> > Best Goon Brèn                         2,683
>>> > Devocyon an Greryow                  103,601
>>> > Enys Tresour                          78,318
>>> > Flehes an Hens Horn                   68,015
>>> > Gwerryans an Planettys                67,872
>>> > Jowal Lethesow                        63,256
>>> > Kensa Lyver Redya                      5,430
>>> > Ky Teylu Baskerville                  64,323
>>> > Lyver Pejadow rag Kenyver Jorna        5,986
>>> > Whedhlow ha drollys a Gernow Goth     10,151
>>> > Whedhlow Kernowek                     26,952
>>> > [not yet published]                   72,827
>>> > [not yet published]                   67,021
>>> > [not yet published]                   42,852
>>> >
>>> > Total: 1,502,138 words.
>>> >
>>> > On top of this there is Skeul an Tavas, Desky Kernowek, and Geryow
>>> Gwir.
>>> >
>>> > So, what do you think?
>>> >
>>> > Changes to an orthography ought to be motivated to solve actual
>>> problems. For my part I do not believe that the "problem" of cân, glân,
>>> gwlân, clâv, gwâv, hâv, âls, fâls, brâs, and tâl is so great that either
>>> cån, glån, gwlån, clåv, gwåv, håv, åls, fåls, brås, and tål or cän, glän,
>>> gwlän, cläv, gwäv, häv, äls, fäls, bräs, and täl would be an improvement. I
>>> think these words are learnt easily.
>>> >
>>> > In fact, from a graphic point of view, ‹å› looks like [ɒ], and ‹ä›
>>> looks like [æ]; ‹â› is better for an alternation [ɒ]~[æ].
>>> >
>>> > Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>> > Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>> > http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>>
>>>
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