[Spellyans] SWF review results.

Daniel Prohaska daniel at ryan-prohaska.com
Mon Apr 7 18:44:15 IST 2014


Michael & Craig, 

I don't wish to butt in or cause grief, and it may not be my business, but since I recently had a little tiff with you, Michael, on FaceBook, I was just wondering whether you actually question your written words here and elsewhere and the way you come across. It seems odd that so many people would take offence at the way you occasionally express yourself without your questioning your wording. Craig has expressed a legitimate opinion in the matter, one I happen to share…, but even if I didn't, there is no need for strong words in order to "convince". Convincing someone happens through good argument, and while you added those "shouting" some one down, tends to be louder than the legitimate argument offered. 

There are people in the Cornish language revival movement who don't even want to sit down at a table with you on account of how you argue on the various e-mail lists and internet fora. Several have dropped out here because of it. I don't want to insinuate that this happened out of malicious intent on your part, but I find it quite staggering that you seem to be oblivious as to why people react to you in this way. 

Now what I would like to suggest is, let's all make up and laugh it off, and Michael, in future, if I may offer a word of advice, be as critical in your wording as you seem to be of others'. We all share a passion for the Cornish language - at least - and differing opinions shouldn't cause us to fall out. 

Dan   


On Apr 7, 2014, at 3:46 PM, Craig Weatherhill wrote:

> Count me out, boys and girls.  I don't need that.
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2014 Ebr 7, at 14:28, Michael Everson wrote:
> 
>> On 7 Apr 2014, at 12:27, Craig Weatherhill <craig at agantavas.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> I will have to disagree.   Textual Cornish is painfully limited.  Every scrap of Cornish written while the language remained a community tongue has to be considered and evaluated, and includes place-name records.  They simply can't be tossed aside as worthless, and ignored.
>> 
>> Dammit, Craig! 
>> I did not say that they should be tossed aside. 
>> I did not say the were worthless. 
>> I did not say that they should be ignored. 
>> 
>> I said that texts written by English speakers who knew no Cornish and were using their own conventions was not a part of the scribal tradition **which is the foundation of our orthography**. So yes, I object when you say “‹oe› is just fine”. That graph tells us something about how Cornish was written down. This is not the same as saying “‹oe› is part of the scribal tradition upon which our spelling is based. 
>> 
>>> The Middle Cornish period, before visiting cartographers and travelling recorders like John Leland (1515), has place-name records which were, in all likelihood, written by Cornish scribes.  In my opinion, that makes them valuable textual evidence.
>> 
>> I have never said that they were not valuable textual evidence. 
>> 
>>> We cannot afford to pick, choose and discard at will.
>> 
>> I said that the orthography they used was not a part of the scribal tradition that informs our orthography. 
>> 
>>> We have no guarantee that all the scribes at Glasney were Cornish - there were many English churchmen here during that period.  We just assume that they were. 
>> 
>> Whether they were Cornish or English is not the same thing as whether they knew Cornish. And it is not the same thing as saying that the spellings of Englishmen who knew no Cornish are part of the scribal tradition. 
>> 
>>> For me, the motto of the Old Cornwall Societies must apply:  "Cuntellewgh an brewyon eus gesys na vo kellys travyth".  "Gather the fragments so that nothing be lost".  ALL the fragments.
>> 
>> And I have never disputed this. I was talking about how one chooses graphs for a robust orthography. The graph ‹oe› is not a part of the scribal tradition. It may be a part of Cornish history, but that is not the same thing. 
>> 
>> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
>> 
>> 
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