[Spellyans] The Cornish for 'cousin'

Clive Baker clive.baker at gmail.com
Thu Jul 24 17:54:28 IST 2014


well, Jon,
 as a teacher of our beloved language, and I mean that,... I always try to
bring in any changes that have happened along the way, but I also have to
explain that others will use different words, because they may not, a) be
aware of these discussions, and b) may decide they don't want to change
anyway... and very often merely because Nicholas' name is attached. None of
this is intended as personal, as I truly admire and love his work, but the
truth is a lot of people (more fool them) wont entertain anything  that he
is involved with... Nicholas knows that.
All I can do is teach as best as I can, and advise my students why I
disagree with most books... hopefully, and eventually, things may change,
but I'm afraid it's a case of "softly, softly catchee monkey"
Clive


On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Jon Mills <j.mills at email.com> wrote:

> Certain expressions and usages may have erroneously become adopted by
> today's Cornish speakers. However I do not believe that we cannot correct
> this. Since every Cornish speaker today learns Cornish as a second
> language, one only has to correct the pedagogical materials to rectify the
> situation.
> Jon
>
>   *Sent:* Thursday, July 24, 2014 at 12:42 PM
> *From:* "Clive Baker" <clive.baker at gmail.com>
> *To:* "Standard Cornish discussion list" <spellyans at kernowek.net>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] The Cornish for 'cousin'
>
> I agree with most of what you say here Nicholas, except this bit about
> Nance and his followers. Most of us, including yourself have at one time or
> other been a follower of Nance, until you or we have learnt better. Without
> his work we wouldn't be here now discussing its wrongs and rights. He did a
> lot of good work for Cornish, considering his lack of qualifications or
> indeed all of the mss we have today.
>
> On this business of attestation, I take your advice regarding these words,
> but the problem we all face is that these words have been part of the
> lexicon of Cornish for nearly 100:years now, and have become everyday
> whether we like it or not...all we can do is advise about origins
>
> On Jul 24, 2014 11:54 AM, "Nicholas Williams" <njawilliams at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> In Cornish, however, it never means 'taste'. The only word for 'taste,
>> savour' is Lhuyd's *sauarn* AB: 105c.
>> The only word for 'to taste' is *tastya*, which is attested no fewer
>> than 18 times. *Tastya* is well attested
>> largely because of the narrative of the fall in OM and CW where Eve and
>> Adam taste the forbidden fruit.
>> Given the prevalence of *tastya*, it is a mystery to me why Nance should
>> have preferred the unattested borrowing
>> **blasa*.
>> Nance and later revivalists seem to have had no difficulties with
>> *ancombra* 'to trouble', *assoylya* 'to resolve', *crùllya* 'to curl',
>> *dyghtya* 'to treat',
>> *gordhya* 'to worship', *gwedhra* 'to wither', *gwetyas* 'to hope',
>> *mellya* 'to interfere', *sconya* 'to refuse', *sewya* 'to follow',
>> *sordya* 'to rise up'
>> and *trailya* 'to turn', yet all those verbs are borrowed from English.
>> Presumably because they are not obviously borrowings.
>> Is is wise, I wonder, to select one's lexicon on the basis of ignorance?
>>
>> Nance based much of the orthography and accidence of UC on the language
>> of *Pascon agan Arluth, *the earliest long text to survive.
>> Curiously PA contains a high proportion of borrowings from English, e.g.
>> *acordya* 'to agree', *blâmya* 'to blame',
>> *comfortya* 'to comfort', *convyctya* 'to convict', *dampnya* 'to
>> condemn', *decêvya* 'to deceive', *desîrya* 'to desire', *droppya* 'to
>> drop', *dyscomfortya* 'to discomfort',
>> *grauntya* 'to grant', *grêvya* 'to grieve', *gwarnya* 'to warn', *jùjya*
>> 'to judge', *onora* 'to honour', *praisya* 'to praise', *rebukya* 'to
>> rebuke', *scolkya* 'to skulk', *scorjya* 'to sourge', *scornya* 'to
>> scorn', *shakya* 'to shake, *sopya* 'to sup', *spêdya* 'to succeed',
>> *strîvya* 'to strive', *temptya* 'to tempt', *tackya* 'to nail',
>> *tormentya* 'to pain', *tùchya* 'to touch' — to say nothing of the
>> borrowed nouns,
>> *bason* 'bason',* box* 'box, blow', *box* 'box, receptacle', *cheryta*
>> 'charity', *coveytys* 'covetousness', *dyscypyl* 'disciple', *gloteny*
>> 'gluttorny', *payment* 'payment', *pryns* 'prince', *pryson* 'prison',
>> *rêson* 'reason', *servys* 'service', *torment* 'torment', *traison*
>> 'treason', *traitour* 'traitor'.
>>
>> In the light of all these borrowings, and many more in PA and the other
>> texts, it is difficult to see why Nance and his followers have been so
>> reluctant to employ
>> attested borrowing from English in use in traditional Cornish, but have
>> been quite happy to use borrowings from Breton and Welsh that cannot be
>> shown ever to have been part of the Cornish lexicon. *Kenderow* and *
>> *kenytherow* are possible examples.
>>
>> Nicholas
>>
>>
>> On 24 Jul 2014, at 11:08, Hewitt, Stephen <s.hewitt at unesco.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> *Blas* also means ‘stink’ in Gwened (Vannetais) Breton J
>>
>>
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