[Spellyans] The Cornish for 'cousin'

Daniel Prohaska daniel at ryan-prohaska.com
Tue Jul 29 12:14:59 IST 2014


There's nothing "guttural" about ‹yw›. It's easy it the vowel in "bit" combined with the vowel in "put".
Dan


On Jul 29, 2014, at 12:54 PM, Clive Baker wrote:

> Yet funnily enough Ray, I was taught originally by some of those older speakers and their instruction was just that...yu is like 'you' but shorter, ...'more clipped', were their actual words. Unfortunately they have all passed from this world, and no doubt turning in their graves at some of the things that have happened to our language
> Kemer wyth
> Clive
> 
> On Jul 29, 2014 11:15 AM, "Ray Chubb" <ray at spyrys.org> wrote:
> The real value of listening to first language speakers is in hearing the overall flow of the language. This makes their speech indistinguishable from someone speaking a language that has not undergone a revival.
> 
> I remember hearing a BBC interview in Welsh the difference in the sound of the language between the interviewer and the uneducated interviewee was marked.
> 
> With regard to pronunciation, we can never be absolutely sure. For example a pronunciation 'you' but a tad shorter, for 'yu/yw' could be correct. I don't thing the 'yooo', as in ewe a sheep, of older Unified speakers can be correct, neither do I think the exaggerated, almost guttural, 'eeoo' of some Common Cornish speakers is correct.
> 
> On 29 Gor 2014, at 10:28, Ken MacKinnon wrote:
> 
> A gowetha,
> 
> These ideas on grammar, syntax, etc.,  seem to have at basis a concept of 'universal grammar' as developed by Noam Chomsky.   Recent theorists have tended to challenge this theory and reject the possibility of a genetic wired-in grammatical system in the human brain.
> 
> - an ken Ken
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] On Behalf Of Philip Newton
> Sent: 29 July 2014 08:19
> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] The Cornish for 'cousin'
> 
> On 29 July 2014 00:20, ewan wilson <butlerdunnit at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I think you both speak common sense and make an unanswerable point
> about first language speakers. The speech of those few speakers should
> be, in my opinion, well and truly recorded. They very probably
> reproduce in instinctual way the way the old monoglots and fluent
> bi-lingual speakers spoke and are closer to the pre revived
> pronunication than all the more sophisticated learners put together!
> 
> I wonder why you think that!
> 
> They can quite possibly be interesting sources for grammar and syntax
> questions: someone using a language natively and regularly will probably have developed a stable system, extrapolating from their input, and this may approximate that of past fluent monoglots.
> 
> But I fail to see how this could happen with pronunciation. From what I know, pronunciation generally comes either from one’s parents or one’s peers (e.g. at school); I doubt that it would spontaneously gravitate to some hypothetical ideal past pronunciation.
> 
> For example, I gather that many people believe that the Cornish word for ‘is’ (yu, yw) was probably pronounced something like ‘eeoo’ (a falling diphthong), much as other diphthong such as ‘aw’ or ‘ew’ or ‘ay’ or ‘ey’ are falling diphthongs, but if a native speaker hears ‘you’ (a rising diphthong), as I believe many people who learned UC speak, then I would imagine that the native speaker will use this rising diphthong (that they constantly heard growing up) rather than the pre-revived falling diphthong.
> 
> Cheers,
> Philip
> 
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> Ray Chubb
> 
> Portreth
> Kernow
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