[Spellyans] SWF review results.

Clive Baker clive.baker at gmail.com
Wed Mar 26 17:45:31 GMT 2014


Checked with Ray Craig, apparently, we abstained at the partnership
meeting... He says he will add a comment here. It is on our next agenda for
discussion
On Mar 26, 2014 2:45 PM, "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org> wrote:

> That very thing concerned me from the outset.  Just like Treyarnon,
> linguists were pointedly frozen out.  Nicholas Williams AND Ken George
> should have been on both panels.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> On 2014 Mer 26, at 13:41, Jon Mills wrote:
>
> That this issue and presumably other issues were "not understood by a
> majority of the Review Board" is of particular concern. It is surely a
> reasonable expectation that those appointed to the Review Board were done
> so on the understanding that they have sufficient expertise for the task in
> hand.
> Ol an gwella,
> Jon
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Daniel Prohaska
> Sent: 03/26/14 01:07 PM
> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] SWF review results.
>
> I find that the inability to reach a solution for distinguishing short /ɔ/
> (e.g. ‹*bronn* ~ *brodn*› 'breast, hill'; ‹*toll*› 'hole') from short /ʊ/
> (e.g. ‹*bronn* ~ *brodn*› 'rushes'; ‹*toll*› 'deceit, fraud') to be the
> biggest phonological shortcoming of the SWF. I've said this since day one
> of the SWF and had hoped that this problem would be tackled in the Review.
> It hasn't. This goes against one of the fundamental principles of the SWF,
> to ensure that there should be a minimum amount of change for the maximum
> section of the Cornish users. Since all Cornish spelling systems have a way
> of distinguishing the two (Jenner ‹*o*› : ‹*u*›; UC/R ‹*o*› : ‹*u*›; KK ‹
> *o*› : ‹*oe*›; KS ‹*o*› : ‹*ù*›) this is an important change for ALL
> Cornish users. according to reports the issue at had was not understood by
> a majority of the Review Board, and thus this unfortunate ambiguity remains
> unchanged in the SWF. Very unfortunate indeed.
>
> Dan
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Clive Baker wrote:
>
>
> Well said Christian...I ,as the recently elected chairman of Agan Tavas,
> agree with you entirely...
> Clive Baker
> On Mar 26, 2014 10:42 AM, "Christian Semmens" <christian.semmens at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I not sure a hands off policy will work. Really I think Jon has hit the
>> nail on the head. It is time to rock the boat. A simple rejection of the
>> SWF in its proposed form, by Agan Tavas, would suffice to put the cat
>> amongst the pigeons. You wouldn't have to say never, just to say that the
>> SWF is an unacceptable orthography because of x, y and z. The SWF only has
>> relevance if it is a consensus orthography. Unfortunately without parity
>> for traditional graphs and the move towards consolidation of the KK
>> aspects, it fails to be of any utility for those of us who would wish to
>> use a traditional orthography.
>>
>> If it is allowed to continue without immediate and explicit challenge
>> than the only outcome in the medium term (the next twenty years) is Jon's
>> option 1. Traditional orthographies will be a splintered hobbyist way of
>> spelling Cornish and the mainstream will use the KK form. We will have
>> failed utterly. Waiting for people to see the light will not work. What is
>> academically acceptable is irrelevant in this scenario. It is the 'boots on
>> the ground' that count
>>
>> If, as I suspect, very few others here *want* to use it in its current
>> form, then that needs to be flagged up. I simply won't use it and I know
>> there are at lest a few more people here that feel that way too. We need a
>> larger group to represent our position and to fight for a traditional
>> orthography. Otherwise we are easily dismissed individually as malcontents.
>> Perhaps you could poll your members and see what their feelings are? That
>> would be interesting.
>>
>> It may be that they are in favour of capitulation, in which case I won't
>> stress over it any more and will visit the grave of traditional Cornish
>> every time I come home whilst trying not to look at the hideous caricature
>> of Cornish daubed on the road signs.
>>
>> Christian
>>
>> On 25 March 2014 14:37, Ray Chubb <ray at spyrys.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> The official Agan Tavas position as adopted at the AGM is that, apart
>>> from changes that Late Cornish users find desirable and the issue of
>>> diacritical marks, the SWF should be left as it is.
>>>
>>> This decision is on the basis that the changes proposed are very few and
>>> tend to make the SWF less authentic than it already is.
>>>
>>> It was suggested at our committee meeting today that another 5 years
>>> should elapse before changes are made. Hopefully in 5 years time people
>>> will be able to look at it in a rational and scholarly way and leave behind
>>> any baggage that they are carrying from the past.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24 Mer 2014, at 21:53, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I managed to get these today.  Many items are "no change", so I've
>>>> singled out those in which a change was decided upon.  The below is given
>>>> in SWF/M for convenience, but the status of Traditional graphs remain
>>>> unaltered.
>>>>
>>>> DOUBLE CONSONANT SPELLINGS.
>>>> 1.  Introduce <ll> and <rr> in roots.  Do not revert to single letter
>>>> in unstressed non-final syllables where that changes the root.
>>>> 2.  Introduce <ll> for <dell>, <-ell> for the suffix which implies
>>>> 'tool' or 'device', e.g., dewynnell, draylell, gwariell, hornell,
>>>> karrigell, musurell, pibell, rostell, skitell, skubell, skwychell,
>>>> tempredhell, torgentrell, yeynell.
>>>>
>>>> SHORT <o> and <u>
>>>> 1. Change to <o> in <arlodh>, in line with <toll>, <tomm>, <boka>,
>>>> <bronn>, <koska>
>>>>
>>>> <GH> and <H>
>>>> 1. <gh> everywhere except word-initially.
>>>>
>>>> PARTICLE <th> in SWF/L
>>>> 1. Join particle with verb as in <thera>, without a gap.
>>>>
>>>> PARTICLE (ow>- RLC VARIANT <o>
>>>> 1. Retain <o> (present participle), but drop the apostrophe.
>>>>
>>>> <NOWYTH>
>>>> 1. To be respelt <nowydh> (M), or <nowedh>.
>>>>
>>>> HYPHENS
>>>> 1.  Remove hyphens from numbers, particles and some other words, e.g.
>>>> <ebost>.
>>>> 2.  Add hyphens in loose compounds of the form 'noun + verbal noun',
>>>> e.g. <jynn-skrifa>, <skath-wolya>, etc.
>>>> 3.  <poslev/poslevow> to replace <poos-lev/poos-levow>.
>>>> 4.  <erbynn> to replace <er-bynn>.
>>>> (but personal use to remain optional).
>>>>
>>>> VOWEL LENGTH IN MONOSYLLABIC LOAN WORDS ENDING -p OR -t.
>>>> 1.  To be written as <pp>, <tt> if they contain a short vowel.
>>>> 2.  Accept both permissible plural endings, e.g. <hattys/hattow>
>>>>
>>>> DHYWORTH/DYWORTH
>>>> 1.  Accept <dhyworth> and <dyworth> as alternatives, and <dhort> and
>>>> <dort> in RLC variants.
>>>>
>>>> A/OA ALTERNATION
>>>> 1.  Remove RLC variants <toal>, <kloav>, <gwoav>, <gwloan>, spelling
>>>> them only with -a-.
>>>> 2.  Add <boas>, <doas>, <moas> in RLC variants to the remaining <broas>.
>>>>
>>>> <OO> for KK <OE>
>>>> 1.  <goolan> to become <golan>.  Otherwise, no change.
>>>>
>>>> <kk> AND <ck>
>>>> 1.  <ck> to be used in all borrowings; <kk> in all other cases,
>>>> including those in doubt.
>>>> 2.  <okkupya> to be respelt <okupya>.
>>>>
>>>> APOSTROPHES IN RLC VARIANTS
>>>> 1.  Retain before nouns like <'manyn>.
>>>> 2.  Do not use elsewhere where the beginning of a word has been shed,
>>>> e.g. <skydnya> from <dyskynna>.
>>>> 3.  Do not use internally, e.g. <metern> from <myghtern> and <mos> from
>>>> <mowes>.
>>>> 4.  Do not use after <kal> (KK <kalgh>).
>>>> 5.  May be used where -th, -dh is dropped, e.g. pro', for', warbar'.
>>>>  To be left to the discretion of individual writers.
>>>>
>>>> <eu>
>>>> 1.  Add SWF/L <enkladhva>, SWF/M <ynkladhva>  (presently SWF
>>>> <ynkleudhva>).
>>>> 2.  Allow <teudhi and <tedha> as alternative spellings.
>>>> 3.  Add to SWF/L <bidhi> (currently <beudhi> only); and <briji>
>>>> (currently <breuji> in SWF/L).
>>>> No change to <breusi>, <Meurth>, <feusik>.
>>>>
>>>> GWR & GR (SWF/L VARIANT)
>>>> 1.  Write <gwr-> in RMC and RLC, inclusing <gwra>, <gwruthyl>.
>>>>
>>>> GEMINATION & PROVECTION IN SUPERLATIVES/SUBJUNCTIVES
>>>> 1.  Retain <tth>, introduce corresponding <ggh>, <cch>, <ssh>.
>>>>
>>>> WORTIWEDH, ETC.
>>>> 1.  <wortiwedh/wostiwedh> and <wostalleth/wortalleth> to be single
>>>> words, without apostrophes.
>>>>
>>>> 1ST PERSON SINGULAR
>>>> 1  RC variant <me>, <ve>, no longer required.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
>>>> http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net
>>>
>>> Ray Chubb
>>>
>>> Portreth
>>> Kernow
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
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>>>
>>
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> _____________________________________
> Dr. Jon Mills,
> University of Kent
> http://kent.academia.edu/JonMills_______________________________________________
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