[Spellyans] SWF review results.

Ray Chubb ray at spyrys.org
Fri Mar 28 08:17:18 GMT 2014


Yes we abstained on the vote to adopt the draft report from the SWF  
Review Board at the Partnership meeting before last.

I explained at the last meeting that we had done this because, as  
seems usual now for reports from the Partnership, it was dropped on us  
at the last minute before we had had to time to consider it. I also  
reported on the decision taken at our AGM to recommend to the Review  
Board that no changes should be made to the SWF as it currently  
stands. (Except for the Late variant.)

On 26 Mer 2014, at 17:45, Clive Baker wrote:

> Checked with Ray Craig, apparently, we abstained at the partnership  
> meeting... He says he will add a comment here. It is on our next  
> agenda for discussion
>
> On Mar 26, 2014 2:45 PM, "Craig Weatherhill" <craig at agantavas.org>  
> wrote:
> That very thing concerned me from the outset.  Just like Treyarnon,  
> linguists were pointedly frozen out.  Nicholas Williams AND Ken  
> George should have been on both panels.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> On 2014 Mer 26, at 13:41, Jon Mills wrote:
>
>> That this issue and presumably other issues were "not understood by  
>> a majority of the Review Board" is of particular concern. It is  
>> surely a reasonable expectation that those appointed to the Review  
>> Board were done so on the understanding that they have sufficient  
>> expertise for the task in hand.
>> Ol an gwella,
>> Jon
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Daniel Prohaska
>>> Sent: 03/26/14 01:07 PM
>>> To: Standard Cornish discussion list
>>> Subject: Re: [Spellyans] SWF review results.
>>>
>>> I find that the inability to reach a solution for distinguishing  
>>> short /ɔ/ (e.g. ‹bronn ~ brodn› 'breast, hill'; ‹toll›  
>>> 'hole') from short /ʊ/ (e.g. ‹bronn ~ brodn› 'rushes';  
>>> ‹toll› 'deceit, fraud') to be the biggest phonological  
>>> shortcoming of the SWF. I've said this since day one of the SWF  
>>> and had hoped that this problem would be tackled in the Review. It  
>>> hasn't. This goes against one of the fundamental principles of the  
>>> SWF, to ensure that there should be a minimum amount of change for  
>>> the maximum section of the Cornish users. Since all Cornish  
>>> spelling systems have a way of distinguishing the two (Jenner  
>>> ‹o› : ‹u›; UC/R ‹o› : ‹u›; KK ‹o› : ‹oe›;  
>>> KS ‹o› : ‹ù›) this is an important change for ALL Cornish  
>>> users. according to reports the issue at had was not understood by  
>>> a majority of the Review Board, and thus this unfortunate  
>>> ambiguity remains unchanged in the SWF. Very unfortunate indeed.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 26, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Clive Baker wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well said Christian...I ,as the recently elected chairman of Agan  
>>>> Tavas, agree with you entirely...
>>>> Clive Baker
>>>> On Mar 26, 2014 10:42 AM, "Christian Semmens" <christian.semmens at gmail.com 
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> I not sure a hands off policy will work. Really I think Jon has  
>>>> hit the nail on the head. It is time to rock the boat. A simple  
>>>> rejection of the SWF in its proposed form, by Agan Tavas, would  
>>>> suffice to put the cat amongst the pigeons. You wouldn't have to  
>>>> say never, just to say that the SWF is an unacceptable  
>>>> orthography because of x, y and z. The SWF only has relevance if  
>>>> it is a consensus orthography. Unfortunately without parity for  
>>>> traditional graphs and the move towards consolidation of the KK  
>>>> aspects, it fails to be of any utility for those of us who would  
>>>> wish to use a traditional orthography.
>>>>
>>>> If it is allowed to continue without immediate and explicit  
>>>> challenge than the only outcome in the medium term (the next  
>>>> twenty years) is Jon's option 1. Traditional orthographies will  
>>>> be a splintered hobbyist way of spelling Cornish and the  
>>>> mainstream will use the KK form. We will have failed utterly.  
>>>> Waiting for people to see the light will not work. What is  
>>>> academically acceptable is irrelevant in this scenario. It is the  
>>>> 'boots on the ground' that count
>>>>
>>>> If, as I suspect, very few others here *want* to use it in its  
>>>> current form, then that needs to be flagged up. I simply won't  
>>>> use it and I know there are at lest a few more people here that  
>>>> feel that way too. We need a larger group to represent our  
>>>> position and to fight for a traditional orthography. Otherwise we  
>>>> are easily dismissed individually as malcontents. Perhaps you  
>>>> could poll your members and see what their feelings are? That  
>>>> would be interesting.
>>>>
>>>> It may be that they are in favour of capitulation, in which case  
>>>> I won't stress over it any more and will visit the grave of  
>>>> traditional Cornish every time I come home whilst trying not to  
>>>> look at the hideous caricature of Cornish daubed on the road signs.
>>>>
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>> On 25 March 2014 14:37, Ray Chubb <ray at spyrys.org> wrote:
>>>> The official Agan Tavas position as adopted at the AGM is that,  
>>>> apart from changes that Late Cornish users find desirable and the  
>>>> issue of diacritical marks, the SWF should be left as it is.
>>>>
>>>> This decision is on the basis that the changes proposed are very  
>>>> few and tend to make the SWF less authentic than it already is.
>>>>
>>>> It was suggested at our committee meeting today that another 5  
>>>> years should elapse before changes are made. Hopefully in 5 years  
>>>> time people will be able to look at it in a rational and  
>>>> scholarly way and leave behind any baggage that they are carrying  
>>>> from the past.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 24 Mer 2014, at 21:53, Craig Weatherhill wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I managed to get these today.  Many items are "no change", so  
>>>> I've singled out those in which a change was decided upon.  The  
>>>> below is given in SWF/M for convenience, but the status of  
>>>> Traditional graphs remain unaltered.
>>>>
>>>> DOUBLE CONSONANT SPELLINGS.
>>>> 1.  Introduce <ll> and <rr> in roots.  Do not revert to single  
>>>> letter in unstressed non-final syllables where that changes the  
>>>> root.
>>>> 2.  Introduce <ll> for <dell>, <-ell> for the suffix which  
>>>> implies 'tool' or 'device', e.g., dewynnell, draylell, gwariell,  
>>>> hornell, karrigell, musurell, pibell, rostell, skitell, skubell,  
>>>> skwychell, tempredhell, torgentrell, yeynell.
>>>>
>>>> SHORT <o> and <u>
>>>> 1. Change to <o> in <arlodh>, in line with <toll>, <tomm>,  
>>>> <boka>, <bronn>, <koska>
>>>>
>>>> <GH> and <H>
>>>> 1. <gh> everywhere except word-initially.
>>>>
>>>> PARTICLE <th> in SWF/L
>>>> 1. Join particle with verb as in <thera>, without a gap.
>>>>
>>>> PARTICLE (ow>- RLC VARIANT <o>
>>>> 1. Retain <o> (present participle), but drop the apostrophe.
>>>>
>>>> <NOWYTH>
>>>> 1. To be respelt <nowydh> (M), or <nowedh>.
>>>>
>>>> HYPHENS
>>>> 1.  Remove hyphens from numbers, particles and some other words,  
>>>> e.g. <ebost>.
>>>> 2.  Add hyphens in loose compounds of the form 'noun + verbal  
>>>> noun', e.g. <jynn-skrifa>, <skath-wolya>, etc.
>>>> 3.  <poslev/poslevow> to replace <poos-lev/poos-levow>.
>>>> 4.  <erbynn> to replace <er-bynn>.
>>>> (but personal use to remain optional).
>>>>
>>>> VOWEL LENGTH IN MONOSYLLABIC LOAN WORDS ENDING -p OR -t.
>>>> 1.  To be written as <pp>, <tt> if they contain a short vowel.
>>>> 2.  Accept both permissible plural endings, e.g. <hattys/hattow>
>>>>
>>>> DHYWORTH/DYWORTH
>>>> 1.  Accept <dhyworth> and <dyworth> as alternatives, and <dhort>  
>>>> and <dort> in RLC variants.
>>>>
>>>> A/OA ALTERNATION
>>>> 1.  Remove RLC variants <toal>, <kloav>, <gwoav>, <gwloan>,  
>>>> spelling them only with -a-.
>>>> 2.  Add <boas>, <doas>, <moas> in RLC variants to the remaining  
>>>> <broas>.
>>>>
>>>> <OO> for KK <OE>
>>>> 1.  <goolan> to become <golan>.  Otherwise, no change.
>>>>
>>>> <kk> AND <ck>
>>>> 1.  <ck> to be used in all borrowings; <kk> in all other cases,  
>>>> including those in doubt.
>>>> 2.  <okkupya> to be respelt <okupya>.
>>>>
>>>> APOSTROPHES IN RLC VARIANTS
>>>> 1.  Retain before nouns like <'manyn>.
>>>> 2.  Do not use elsewhere where the beginning of a word has been  
>>>> shed, e.g. <skydnya> from <dyskynna>.
>>>> 3.  Do not use internally, e.g. <metern> from <myghtern> and  
>>>> <mos> from <mowes>.
>>>> 4.  Do not use after <kal> (KK <kalgh>).
>>>> 5.  May be used where -th, -dh is dropped, e.g. pro', for',  
>>>> warbar'.  To be left to the discretion of individual writers.
>>>>
>>>> <eu>
>>>> 1.  Add SWF/L <enkladhva>, SWF/M <ynkladhva>  (presently SWF  
>>>> <ynkleudhva>).
>>>> 2.  Allow <teudhi and <tedha> as alternative spellings.
>>>> 3.  Add to SWF/L <bidhi> (currently <beudhi> only); and <briji>  
>>>> (currently <breuji> in SWF/L).
>>>> No change to <breusi>, <Meurth>, <feusik>.
>>>>
>>>> GWR & GR (SWF/L VARIANT)
>>>> 1.  Write <gwr-> in RMC and RLC, inclusing <gwra>, <gwruthyl>.
>>>>
>>>> GEMINATION & PROVECTION IN SUPERLATIVES/SUBJUNCTIVES
>>>> 1.  Retain <tth>, introduce corresponding <ggh>, <cch>, <ssh>.
>>>>
>>>> WORTIWEDH, ETC.
>>>> 1.  <wortiwedh/wostiwedh> and <wostalleth/wortalleth> to be  
>>>> single words, without apostrophes.
>>>>
>>>> 1ST PERSON SINGULAR
>>>> 1  RC variant <me>, <ve>, no longer required.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> Ray Chubb
>>>>
>>>> Portreth
>>>> Kernow
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________
>> Dr. Jon Mills,
>> University of Kent
>> http://kent.academia.edu/JonMills  
>> _______________________________________________
>> Spellyans mailing list
>> Spellyans at kernowek.net
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>
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Ray Chubb

Portreth
Kernow

Agan Tavas web site:  www.agantavas.com


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