[Spellyans] Excel SWF-KK-Traditional Corpus-WIP

A. J. Trim ajtrim at msn.com
Sun Feb 21 11:31:38 GMT 2016


Something went wrong! Here is my post again. Apologies to anyone who now has it twice.
This is mainly for Double-H:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
kk:
I can find only three instances of kk in the SWF (main) list, so what is the "everything else" to which you refer?

Looking at the Awesome list (attested forms), there are 8 kc, 21 cc, 23 kk but 126 ck.



k to c conversion:    
For some reason, k did not get transcribed to c in the following.
Note: I am referring to the second k in each case:

    kemynskrif
    kemyska
    kemyskans
    kenskrif
    kensskrif
    kesakordyans
    keskal
    keskales
    keskan
    keskar
    keskar
    keskarieth
    keskarydh
    keskarydhes
    kesklappya
    keskolodnekᴸ
    keskolon
    keskolonekter
    keskolonnek
    keskomunya
    keskomunyans
    keskorra
    keskoweth
    keskowethes
    keskowethyans
    keskows
    keskowselᴸ
    keskowsva
    keskreuni
    keskussulyans
    kesskol
    kesskrifa
    kesskrifans
    kesskrifer
    kesskrifores
    kilokalori
    k'lonka
    kynsskrif

I apologise, klapkodh was indeed converted correctly. My mistake.
I also spelt kesklappya wrongly. Sorry about that.



kt to ct:
This is used in Kernowek Standard, so it would not be new orthography -- just not SWF, perhaps.
Looking at the Awesome list (attested forms), there are 7 kt but about 31 ct.



nantei:
The stress is on the second syllable.
I believe that the diphthong ei occurs only in stressed word-final position, and then only in Late Cornish variants. The diphthong ei is never changed to ey.
I have seen a Middle Cornish variant spelt nansi elsewhere, reportedly from Anglo-French non si. Is nantei the same word? If so, it should be marked L for Late Cornish.



Regards,

Andrew J. Trim





On 11/02/16 11:05, Harry 'Double-H' Hawkey wrote:

  Andrew J. Trim wrote:




    This is an interesting list.



  Very pleased to hear it!



    It would be better if it were to include the attested Traditional Cornish forms, with frequencies. I expect that you have that planned ....



  I sure do.  Slowly, but methodically...a lot of the traditional corpus simply does not have SWF forms though...I suppose I could try and make them up myself, though it would probably be better to post the list here and get someone else to do it...



    It would be better still if it were to include the Traditional Graph forms and their pronunciations for the plurals!



  Yes, I already thought of that.  We're going to end up with a lot of columns I think.  Maybe I should make two sheets, one for main and the other for traditional?



    Words like karate, kayak, Korea, Koran do not become more traditional by spelling them with c, instead of k, so I would leave them as k.



  Hmm. Okay...



    Double k occurs only in bykken, lakka, tykki. I would spell these with ck, instead of kk, to match all the others.



  The SWF (main) rule is, ck in 'loan-words' (???), kk in everything else, correct? I don't remember seeing any rule for this in the traditional forms rules.  Personally I'd prefer universal 'kk' in the main form, universal 'ck' in traditional, but there you go...



    The SWF rule seems to be that we have to use kt but I prefer ct, instead of kt, in words like activita, whecter, octet.



  Erm... aren't we pretty much designing a new orthography at this point? :-)



    For some reason, k did not get transcribed to c in the following:

    kemynskrif
    kemyska
    kemyskans
    kenskrif
    kensskrif
    kesakordyans
    keskal to keskarydhes
    keskloppa to keskussulyans
    kesskol to kesskrifores
    kilokalori
    klapkodh
    k'lonka
    kynsskrif



  As far as I understand, k before e,i,y = no change.  K'lonka must be due to the apostrophe.  If 'klapkodh' was incorrect before, it's fixed now (in my version anyway...).



    The word distruksyon has been converted to distruxyon.(etc.)



  Fixing soon...



    For some reason, ks did not get transcribed to x in the following:
    boksuji
    boksusi
    eksamnya
    ekstatek
    oksid
    oksyjen



  Yes, the IPA stress symbol (hope I got this right) is between the k and the s in those words. Fixed in next version probably...



    It has been assumed that the Traditional Graph equivalent of kw is qw. However, the Traditional Cornish in your Awesome list shows that the overwhelming majority of Traditional words had qu, not kw and not qw. Any attempt to make Cornish spelling more traditional should reconsider qu.



  Oh, didn't know qu was an option.  Maybe I should change them all?



    The word frikhwyth has been converted to friqwhyth.
    I think that this is wrong as it is not really an instance of kw but rather an instance of kwh (spelt here khw.)  I think that it should be spelt frikwheth.



  Stupid worm-brained algorithm/programmer!!!



    The word dermatologydhes appears to have the dh transposed to hd in the plural (dermatologyhdesow). I believe that the on-line dictionary has this wrong.



  You would not believe the amount of stuff it has wrong.



    The word bughwas has been converted to bugwhas. However, this is from bugh gwas, so wh is unlikely. If the Late Cornish pronunciation is correct, you may need an additional Late variant buhwhas.



  Yes, I think the late Cornish pronunciation caused hw->wh in this case.  



    For some reason, hw did not get transcribed to wh in the following:
    hwekhe
    hwigen



  Because the recommended pronunciation is 'hw' and not 'ʍ' in these words, so my program didn't catch them. Thanks.



    Unstressed word-final -i to -y conversion is not happening whenever the word is marked L, M, [1], [2].



  More algorithm improvements needed then...at the moment it only checks if the final letter is 'i'...and the pronunciation is not 'i:'



    The word nantei has been converted to nantey. I believe that this is wrong, and that nantei is correct.



  Okay, any idea why?  Is it because it's a diphthong?



    Well, this has turned out to be rather a long post. I hope it helps.



  Thanks for putting so much effort into checking the database! I shall use your observations to improve it for the next version..well done!



   

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