[Spellyans] Excel SWF-KK-Traditional Corpus-WIP

Clive Baker clive.baker at gmail.com
Sun Feb 21 11:37:17 GMT 2016


I think something may have gone wrong again ...I have nothing new
Clive

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 11:31 AM, A. J. Trim <ajtrim at msn.com> wrote:

> Something went wrong! Here is my post again. Apologies to anyone who now
> has it twice.
> This is mainly for Double-H:
>
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> kk:
> I can find only three instances of kk in the SWF (main) list, so what is
> the "everything else" to which you refer?
>
> Looking at the Awesome list (attested forms), there are 8 kc, 21 cc, 23 kk
> but 126 ck.
>
>
>
> k to c conversion:
> For some reason, k did not get transcribed to c in the following.
> Note: I am referring to the second k in each case:
>
>     kemynskrif
>     kemyska
>     kemyskans
>     kenskrif
>     kensskrif
>     kesakordyans
>     keskal
>     keskales
>     keskan
>     keskar
>     keskar
>     keskarieth
>     keskarydh
>     keskarydhes
>     kesklappya
>     keskolodnekᴸ
>     keskolon
>     keskolonekter
>     keskolonnek
>     keskomunya
>     keskomunyans
>     keskorra
>     keskoweth
>     keskowethes
>     keskowethyans
>     keskows
>     keskowselᴸ
>     keskowsva
>     keskreuni
>     keskussulyans
>     kesskol
>     kesskrifa
>     kesskrifans
>     kesskrifer
>     kesskrifores
>     kilokalori
>     k'lonka
>     kynsskrif
>
> I apologise, klapkodh was indeed converted correctly. My mistake.
> I also spelt kesklappya wrongly. Sorry about that.
>
>
>
> kt to ct:
> This is used in Kernowek Standard, so it would not be new orthography --
> just not SWF, perhaps.
> Looking at the Awesome list (attested forms), there are 7 kt but about 31
> ct.
>
>
>
> nantei:
> The stress is on the second syllable.
> I believe that the diphthong ei occurs only in stressed word-final
> position, and then only in Late Cornish variants. The diphthong ei is never
> changed to ey.
> I have seen a Middle Cornish variant spelt nansi elsewhere, reportedly
> from Anglo-French non si. Is nantei the same word? If so, it should be
> marked L for Late Cornish.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrew J. Trim
>
>
>
>
> On 11/02/16 11:05, Harry 'Double-H' Hawkey wrote:
>
> Andrew J. Trim wrote:
>
>
> This is an interesting list.
>
>
> Very pleased to hear it!
>
>
> It would be better if it were to include the attested Traditional Cornish
> forms, with frequencies. I expect that you have that planned ....
>
>
>
> I sure do.  Slowly, but methodically...a lot of the traditional corpus
> simply does not have SWF forms though...I suppose I could try and make them
> up myself, though it would probably be better to post the list here and get
> someone else to do it...
>
>
> It would be better still if it were to include the Traditional Graph forms
> and their pronunciations for the plurals!
>
>
>
> Yes, I already thought of that.  We're going to end up with a lot of
> columns I think.  Maybe I should make two sheets, one for main and the
> other for traditional?
>
>
> Words like karate, kayak, Korea, Koran do not become more traditional by
> spelling them with c, instead of k, so I would leave them as k.
>
>
>
> Hmm. Okay...
>
>
> Double k occurs only in bykken, lakka, tykki. I would spell these with ck,
> instead of kk, to match all the others.
>
>
>
> The SWF (main) rule is, ck in 'loan-words' (???), kk in everything else,
> correct? I don't remember seeing any rule for this in the traditional forms
> rules.  Personally I'd prefer universal 'kk' in the main form, universal
> 'ck' in traditional, but there you go...
>
>
> The SWF rule seems to be that we have to use kt but I prefer ct, instead
> of kt, in words like activita, whecter, octet.
>
>
>
> Erm... aren't we pretty much designing a new orthography at this point? :-)
>
>
> For some reason, k did not get transcribed to c in the following:
>
> kemynskrif
> kemyska
> kemyskans
> kenskrif
> kensskrif
> kesakordyans
> keskal to keskarydhes
> keskloppa to keskussulyans
> kesskol to kesskrifores
> kilokalori
> klapkodh
> k'lonka
> kynsskrif
>
>
> As far as I understand, k before e,i,y = no change.  K'lonka must be due
> to the apostrophe.  If 'klapkodh' was incorrect before, it's fixed now (in
> my version anyway...).
>
>
> The word distruksyon has been converted to distruxyon.(etc.)
>
>
>
> Fixing soon...
>
>
> For some reason, ks did not get transcribed to x in the following:
> boksuji
> boksusi
> eksamnya
> ekstatek
> oksid
> oksyjen
>
>
>
> Yes, the IPA stress symbol (hope I got this right) is between the k and
> the s in those words. Fixed in next version probably...
>
>
> It has been assumed that the Traditional Graph equivalent of kw is qw.
> However, the Traditional Cornish in your Awesome list shows that the
> overwhelming majority of Traditional words had qu, not kw and not qw. Any
> attempt to make Cornish spelling more traditional should reconsider qu.
>
>
>
> Oh, didn't know qu was an option.  Maybe I should change them all?
>
>
> The word frikhwyth has been converted to friqwhyth.
> I think that this is wrong as it is not really an instance of kw but
> rather an instance of kwh (spelt here khw.)  I think that it should be
> spelt frikwheth.
>
>
>
> Stupid worm-brained algorithm/programmer!!!
>
>
> The word dermatologydhes appears to have the dh transposed to hd in the
> plural (dermatologyhdesow). I believe that the on-line dictionary has this
> wrong.
>
>
>
> You would not believe the amount of stuff it has wrong.
>
>
> The word bughwas has been converted to bugwhas. However, this is from bugh
> gwas, so wh is unlikely. If the Late Cornish pronunciation is correct, you
> may need an additional Late variant buhwhas.
>
>
>
> Yes, I think the late Cornish pronunciation caused hw->wh in this case.
>
>
> For some reason, hw did not get transcribed to wh in the following:
> hwekhe
> hwigen
>
>
>
> Because the recommended pronunciation is 'hw' and not 'ʍ' in these words,
> so my program didn't catch them. Thanks.
>
>
> Unstressed word-final -i to -y conversion is not happening whenever the
> word is marked L, M, [1], [2].
>
>
>
> More algorithm improvements needed then...at the moment it only checks if
> the final letter is 'i'...and the pronunciation is not 'i:'
>
>
> The word nantei has been converted to nantey. I believe that this is
> wrong, and that nantei is correct.
>
>
> Okay, any idea why?  Is it because it's a diphthong?
>
>
> Well, this has turned out to be rather a long post. I hope it helps.
>
>
>
> Thanks for putting so much effort into checking the database! I shall use
> your observations to improve it for the next version..well done!
>
>
>
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