[Spellyans] Excel SWF-KK-Traditional Corpus-WIP

Ken MacKinnon ken at ferintosh.org
Sat Jan 30 17:26:21 GMT 2016


Oh well, you can't win 'em  all, Craig.

 

I did ponder putting Bogus Phlegming forward to the Panel as a Cornish
equivalent - but on reconsideration I felt that my jokes might queer the
pitch for more serious approaches.

 

I am relieved to hear that the Panel did not start with the Kesva list.  The
original series of booklets and the subsequent comprehensive list seemed to
me to be pretty amateurish.  The pity has been that the Kesva (from its
authoritative name and title) has been all too often regarded as an expert
authority, and its neologisms and mistranslations all too often quoted as
THE Cornish for "X".  I do not think that there were any on the Kesva who
had any real expertise or specialism in toponymy.

 

If the agreed Panel list is transmissible by means of email attachment, I
would be most benefited.

 

There may be hope yet!  - Ken

 

From: Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] On Behalf Of Craig
Weatherhill
Sent: 30 January 2016 13:28
To: Standard Cornish discussion list
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Excel SWF-KK-Traditional Corpus-WIP

 

"Bogus Fleming" nearly had me shooting my coffee down my nose!

 

No, the Signage Panel hasn't used the Kesva's list at all.  We started from
scratch.  There is a current master list, which I have stored in my
documents, and which I can send to you.

It's good that we've eliminated most of the mistakes and, of course, the
list can be converted into any orthography you please.

 

It is rather a pity that Kambron and Kambronn have turned up in a document
of 1469, held at the Records Office in Truro.  The two spellings occur in
the same few lines of text, so the scribe obviously couldn't make his mind
up! 

(I was a little sceptical of the discovery at first, but checked up and
found, to my disappointment, that the document is genuine).

 

Craig

 

 

 

On 2016 Gen 30, at 12:45, Ken MacKinnon wrote:





Hi Craig,

 

Is this from the place-name and signage panel's update of the Kesva's
place-name list ( on which many inaccuracies have been observed, and many
guess-work or made-up names appeared, e.g. for Bogus Fleming, and
Summercourt) ?

 

If single-handedly you managed to reduce these to five I think you deserve a
medal.  Pity about Kammbronn though - Cambronn would have been tolerable.

Is the Panel's list available, either as hard copy or on-line?

 

Yn rag hag yn ban - an ken Ken

 

From: Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] On Behalf Of Craig
Weatherhill
Sent: 29 January 2016 22:21
To: Standard Cornish discussion list
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Excel SWF-KK-Traditional Corpus-WIP

 

Confirmed.  Also see Bodriggy, Hayle, and Bodrifty, Madron.  Both much too
far west for non-assibilation to have been preserved under any other
circumstances.

 

I tried hard to argue the case for Resrudh on the Signage Panel, but was
outvoted on that.  (Res- is retained by the SWF names when unstressed.  Rys
only when stressed).

 

The dreadful Kammbronn has been retained, but in this case, it was taken out
of our hands by the Partnership (we were close to agreement on
Kammbron/Cammbron, which accords with SWF rules.  Kammbronn does not,
according to Albert).  This remains the only place-name that was not decided
by the Panel.  I've managed to prevent historical foul-ups (as per CLB) in
all bar 5 so far (out of 3,000 +) which, for a lone voice, isn't bad and
warrants my sticking with it.

 

Craig

 

 

 

 

 

On 2016 Gen 29, at 21:38, Nicholas Williams wrote:






I have a MacBook OSX version 10.12.2 and a rather ancient iPhone. I can read
the whole thing on the iPhone, but only as far as ordyr on my laptop.

 

Since the glossary is in KK and SWF/M it is not of any great interest to me,
particularly since much of the fuller KK section is, in my view, at best
invention and at worst palpably incorrect, e.g. *bywnans, *klywes,

*Yudi 'Judea', *Nasara 'Nazareth-the attested spelling is Nazare, Nazary. 

 

I notice that the KK for 'Redruth' is given as Rysrudh. The first element
should have e rather than y. More importantly it is clear that the 

consonant cluster -dr- in Cornish does not assibilate to -sr- in
intervocalic position. This can be seen from such forms as pedry, hadre
'while', edrek, pedrevanas, godros, ladra, medra, etc.

Notice also that in BK Modred is either Modreth or Modres, showing that the
final segment can be assibilated but the internal -dr- is not.

 

The Cornish for Redruth is Redruth: durth Pedn an Wollaz tho an Karrack
Looez, ha tua Poreeah ha Redruth NBoson. 

The final element is unstressed and I take it to be voiceless. Rysrudh in my
view is unwarranted. 

 

I think Craig will agree with me that -dr- in Redruth is not assibilated.

 

 

Nicholas 

 

 

On 29 Jan 2016, at 20:12, Harry 'Double-H' Hawkey <bendyfrog at live.com>
wrote:

 

What software / operating system / device are you using to open it?  It
works fine for me in excel and open office, windows and linux (should be
5,873 entries, zian is the last word).

 

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