[Spellyans] Cornish for 'Ireland'

Clive Baker clive.baker at gmail.com
Tue Jul 5 21:31:53 IST 2016


Yes, I too was taught 'arghans' for money...but as a silversmith I found it
odd when saying I was a 'Gwythor Arghans'...sounded more like money maker
or banker to me.
As soon as I discovered your words Nicholas, concerning it, I changed
immediately and have always advised my students to do the same and use mona
(as monna and not moana!)...For silver I say use Arghans (KU) but without
the 'g' in the pronunciaton...the same as for fleghes etc.(no fricative).
The students happily accept the sound being different to the apparent,
probably because their is a rule... when in the middle of a word, no
fricative...only when at the end of a word.
Clive

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Nicholas Williams <njawilliams at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thank you for your support, Clive.
>
> Jenner died in 1934 and thereafter Nance probably considered himself the
> undisputed authority on Cornish and probably believed no one would question
> him.
>
> In the 1934 dictionary s.v. ‘money’ Nance gives *arghans* and (cash)
> *môna*. The vowel in *mona* is not long as can be seen both from
> *Ni venja pea a munna seer* Tonkin and from *Monnah* ‘Pecunia’ AB: 115c.
> *Arghans* does not mean ‘money’ but ‘silver.' The one counter-example is *gans
> clethyow, arghans, dafyr lathva ha kenyver ehan a booz daber* in
> Keigwin’s translation of King Charles’s letter. Keigwin is not reliable.
>
> To return to Nance’s 1934 dictionary. His *arghans* ‘money’ has become so
> firmly entrenched in Revived Cornish that it will take a long time to
> replace it with *mona*. Nance’s spelling is also unfortunate in that
> everybody who uses the word pronounces it with gh [x] after the r.
> Yet as early as Origo Mundi the fricative is lost:
>
> *yma onen theugh parys a arans pur ha fyn gurys* ‘one [a garland] is
> ready for you, made of pure and fine silver’ OM 2099-100.
>
> This agrees with the inscription on the silver ball by Thomas Boson:
>
> *An pelle Arrance ma ve resse*, etc.
>
> The word should be spelt <arhans> (as it is in KS), and, I believe, should
> be pronounced with a voiceless r.
>
> Nicholas
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5 Jul 2016, at 10:41, Clive Baker <clive.baker at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> n support of that, when I was first learning Cornish,(it seems millennia
> ago now) I was fortunate to possess both the 1934 and 1952 editions of
> Nance's dictionary, and I queried that very same question of my then great
> tutor, and now unfortunately deceased Leonard Orm...his reply was that
> Nance must have discovered something new in the meantime.
> We now know that to be wrong of course, and I must agree with Nicholas.
> Clive
>
>
>
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