[Spellyans] the suffix -el

[Janice Lobb]

Ha Clive, that reminded me of a quotation from Ibsen's Peer Gynt (re the
difference between men and trolls) "Troll, to thyself be enough!" It is
indeed important to get things right.
Jan

On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 7:25 PM, Clive Baker <clive.baker at gmail.com> wrote:

> Whilst not an expert in the structure and original fine grammatic detail,
> it seems to me as a teacher and user of Cornish, what I use MUST be as
> correct and similar to that which native speakers would have used, to the
> best of our knowledge to date. Anything else is a  lie and not Cornish...an
> invention plainly...there are basic rules which we must obey...
> M father drummed into me "BE TRUE TO THINE OWN SELF"... a good case for
> that is now!
> kemereugh wyth
> Clive
>
> On Sat, Mar 4, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Nicholas Williams <njawilliams at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In further defence of the suffix -el Dr George has mentioned, albeit
>> without citing any examples,
>> that -el, -yel appears as a suffix in place-names. This is certainly
>> true, and one thinks immediately
>> of Lostiwithiel. It must be admitted that in such cases the suffix is by
>> the MC period a bound morpheme
>> which is not productive in the language as a whole.
>> Dr George believes that the presence of -el or -yel in such toponyms “has
>> given the green light” to the extension
>> of -el as a productive suffix in the revived language. It could be argued
>> against such a view
>> that the use as a productive suffix of a formant that is fossilised by
>> the MC period and therefore no longer seen as a suffix is at best unwise.
>> Moreover one might suggest that the promiscuous use of -*el in the
>> revived language distances it still further
>> from traditional Cornish.
>> Perhaps one might class *-el alongside other doubtful features that have
>> been recommended for the language in the past.
>> As random examples one might cite:
>>
>> 1. Ywerdhon, Iwerdhon ‘Ireland'
>> 2. *kerentja ‘love’, *gantjo ‘with him’, *gallodjek ‘powerful’, etc.
>> 3. bywnans ‘life’ and klywes ‘to hear’
>> 4. spellings like *hwyja, *hweg, *hwans, etc.
>> 5. unattested spellings like *piw, *gwiw
>> 6. the use of huni in such expressions as an huni bras ‘the big one’, etc.
>> 7. *gos ‘is known’
>> 8. *yalgh ‘purse’.
>>
>> Indeed the following paragraph from the website of the Akademi Kernewek
>> is good example of how
>> far some forms of the revived language deviate from anything in the
>> traditional language:
>>
>> *Akademi Kernewek yw aswonys gans Konsel Kernow avel an korf diambosel
>> omgemeryek  *
>> *rag towlennans an korpus a Gernewek, desedha savonow rag an yeth,
>> displegya an gerlyver *
>> ha komposa hwithrans. *Akademi Kernewek a'n jeves Bord ha peswar panel,
>> gans kettep panel lown arbennek*
>>
>> Given that some people criticise revived Cornish on the grounds that it
>> is a concocted language,
>> it could be argued that anything which takes the revived language further
>> from its sources in the texts is to be
>> avoided, less revived Cornish be increasingly seen as a conlang.
>>
>> When I was recently in Penzance this point was several times put to me,
>> namely that revived
>> Cornish was artificial, made up or concocted. Anything which might add to
>> this criticism
>> is probably best avoided.
>>
>> What do others think?
>>
>> Nicholas
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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