[Spellyans] The Cornish for 'who?'

Clive Baker clive.baker at gmail.com
Fri Apr 9 07:25:01 BST 2021


Well Dan,
 I dont necessaRILY SUPPORT NANCE EITHER AS IT HAPPENS, BEING BLESSED WITH
A BRAIN i AM ABLE LIKE MOST HERE TO FORM MY OWN CLEAR AND PROBABLY
DIFFERENT OPINION. please excuse my nasty self opinionated keyboard...it
constantly changes case ...time for a new one.
However I do criticise most spelling systems on their lack of any
thought to the way people actually spoke...with what type of  vowel sounds
they used. and all the inventors are from other language roots with the
exception of Rod.
He and I like others around speak Cornish with what I consider a proper
accent. but the majority do not.. they speak with a bleddy geat plum in
their mouths.
take borrowed words like fas. cav, fram etc etc.. are spoken with the 'a'
sound of English 'cat'...excuse my lack of linguistic terminology but that
is a 'load of manure'...if the braf Cornishmen borrowed a word they
wouldn't have invented a new sound, they would have used a near enuff one
of their own... English Face- Cornish Faas...English Cave- Cornish Caav
...English Frame- Cornish Fraam etc etc
The sound of O still in Camborne Redruth is AW..Orange Lorry is Awrange
Lawry
but deaf ears are always that..there are a books worth of other examples
out there which I know are right but which are completely ignored... tuit
tut Clive... git off yer 'orse and let the experts speak
without writing a book here the proof of my particular pudding is plain for
all to see.

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 at 08:07, Daniel Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
wrote:

> Clive,
>
> You’re actually scratching at the heart of the matter here, ... it’s one
> of approach to  the issue. What Nance did on the one hand and Ken George
> did on the other are very different things. Nance standardised spellings
> that were found in the texts and then derived a pronunciation from these
> spellings, while Ken reconstructed a phonology of historical Cornish and
> then assigned each distinctive  sound a letter (or combination of letters)
> to represent it orthographically. These are two very different approaches.
> Criticising the one for a given approach is a bit like watching an atheist
> and Tridentine Catholic debating a Southern Baptists view on divinity, each
> side strawmanning the other’s position and essentially failing to listen,
> or  getting anywhere, because one’s own views are in the way. The arguement
> thus becomes useless, because neither approach is fairly discussed for what
> it represents.
>
> Dan
>
> On 07.04.2021, at 13:45, Clive Baker <clive.baker at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It ALMOST seems Nicholas, as if they search for any combination of letters
> that hasn't been used and pick that as their standard...and I find it
> utterly annoying and a tragic waste of taxpayers money...Akademi my arse
>
> On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 at 12:35, Nicholas Williams <njawilliams at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> *T*he Cornish for ‘who?’ is *pyw*, *pew*. Here are as many attested
>> forms as I have been able to find in the traditional texts (I ignore
>> capitalization):
>>
>> *pyv *
>> PA 190d, OM 1874, PC 771, 798, 1116, 1380, 1384, 2853, RD 262, 1640,
>> 2383, 2467, 2511, 2547, BM 307, 775, 1791, 1977, 2691, 2708, 2714, 2869,
>> 3301, 3463, 3678, 3719, 4039
>>
>> *pyw*
>> OM 261, 1368, 2339, PC 320, 1109, RD 196, 410, 589, 2499, CW 872
>>
>> *pew*
>> TH 7, 11, 28a x2, 36, 43a x2, 57, SA 59 x2, BK 100, 209, 214, 1998,
>> 2068, CW 548, 1462, 1593, 2346, Pryce: F f 4 verso.
>>
>> *pu*
>> PA 81d, 160c, 253d, *Revue Celtique* 23: 179.
>>
>>
>> The spelling <pu> found in both PA and Rowe (*Revue Celtique* 23: 179)
>> and is comparable with <du> ‘god, God.’ The only Cornish forms with <i> are
>> found in Lhuyd in his semi-phonetic spelling. He writes *piu** a uor? *‘who
>> knows?’ and *piu** a’ryg an bad-ober?* ‘who comitted the crime?’ (with a
>> dot under the u) but he also writes *peu** a’ryg an bad-ober? *(AB:
>> 352a).
>> The online dictionary of the Akademi Kernewek under ‘who’ gives *piw* —
>> a form which is attested nowhere in traditional Cornish.
>> Why are learners offered a spelling which is without warrant in any
>> traditional Cornish text?
>>
>> Nicholas Williams
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