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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I assume that we are setting out to improve on the
SWF. If so, we need to cater for all real Revived Cornish pronunciations from
Early Middle Cornish till Dying Late Cornish, as that is what the SWF has set
out to do. These pronunciations are known. All unreal (i.e. "<FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=4>aspirational</FONT>") Revived Cornish
pronunciations need not be catered for. These pronunciations are also
known.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Unfortunately, we don't know what the Traditional
Cornish pronunciations were, especially for periods prior to Lhuyd. Revived
Cornish pronunciation may therefore change if/when new information comes to
light.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am quite happy to base the spelling on that found
in Tudor Cornish.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am happy with the assumption that there are only
two lengths for vowels (long & short). However, Traditional Cornish
sometimes used double consonants. Perhaps, some of these were pronounced long,
especially in comparative/superlative adjectives (e.g. the <STRONG>th</STRONG>
in <STRONG>cotha </STRONG>"older") and in some verbal endings where a pronounced
distinction would have been useful to clarify meaning. If this was the case,
then all current speakers are wrong if all current speakers ignore this possible
feature. For example (according to "Cornish Simplified"), "to say" is
<STRONG>leverel</STRONG>, the 3rd person imperfect is <STRONG>levery</STRONG>,
the 2nd person present subjunctive is <STRONG>leverry</STRONG>. Perhaps the
double <STRONG>r</STRONG> would have been pronounced long. If so, I would be
surprised if the sound of the preceding <STRONG>e</STRONG> were not affected in
some way. I would expect it to become less obscure if not shorter. There are
other examples: <STRONG>cara</STRONG> and <STRONG>carra</STRONG>;
<STRONG>gweleugh</STRONG> and <STRONG>gwelleugh</STRONG>. I'm not sure which are
re-constructions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>When I say <STRONG>jyn</STRONG>, my tongue finishes
farther back in my mouth than when I say <STRONG>pen</STRONG> where the tongue
ends closer to my teeth. I think that the <STRONG>n</STRONG> of
<STRONG>jyn</STRONG> is a little longer - though not a long
<STRONG>nn</STRONG>.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Andrew J. Trim</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Tahoma">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:njawilliams@gmail.com
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:njawilliams@gmail.com">nicholas williams</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 23, 2008 5:12 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:spellyans@kernowek.net
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:spellyans@kernowek.net">spellyans@kernowek.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [Spellyans] The sounds of Cornish</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Before any discussion of how the
SWF may need to be emended, could we first establish which pronunciation or
varieties of pronunciation</SPAN></FONT>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">we are going to use as our basis.
The SWF specification does not adhere to the pronunciation of current speakers
of revived Cornish, but</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">posits three differing forms,
Middle Cornish, Tudor Cornish and Late Cornish. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">I have in the past been severely
criticised for even suggesting the term Tudor Cornish, since such an entity
never existed as a separate</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">form of the language. I meant it
simply as a convenient way of referring to the foundation texts of UCR: Beunans
Meriasek, Tregear and the Creation (we can now add BK).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">I have never suggested that Tudor
Cornish was an entity in itself.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Now, however, Bruch and Bock do
just that, in order it seems to allow the pronunciation suggested for KK, which
has both</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">half-length and long consonants.
Since *no speaker* of revived Cornish has half-length or long consonants (I do
not include either</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">bm, dn or lh here), can we please
make it clear from the outset that any orthography for Cornish should attempt to
represent</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">the language as it is spoken by
*all* speakers, i.e. with only long and short vowels, and only one unmarked
length for consonants?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Thus the a in tas is long and the
a in tasow is short. There is moreover no difference between the n in jyn
'engine' and penn 'head' (if not pre-occluded).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">If we insist on these two points
at the outset, we are doing nothing new. We are merely accepting the sounds of
Cornish as first</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">suggested by Jenner, and agreed
by Nance, Caradar and Gendall.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">The odd man out in this whole
question is George, who posits a long m in kemmyn for example and half-length in
tasow.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">He does not, however, use his
hypothetical pronunciation in his own speech and has indeed admitted that he
does not. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Revived Cornish (whatever
orthography it uses) when spoken has no half-length and no long
consonants. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">In which case the following
"phonemes" mentioned in the Specification are merely "aspirational" and should
be removed:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">/l: m: n: r: k: p: t: x: s: T:/
(see the Spec. page 18 § 4.0. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">We cannot devise an accurate
orthography if we need to distinguish in writing sounds which 1) did not exist
in the traditional language and</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">2) certainly do not exist in
contemporary speech and 3) do not even exist in the speech of those who claim
that they do.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Would it not be a good idea
before we start to be honest about the sounds of the revived
language?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Nicholas</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P>
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