<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">Ogh Soweth! I think I think I probably did that translation Nicholas. </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">I use Nance with cross refererence to your own dictionary.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">Pat <BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">----- Original Message ----<BR>From: nicholas williams <njawilliams@gmail.com><BR>To: Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans@kernowek.net><BR>Sent: Sunday, 20 July, 2008 10:01:20 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [Spellyans] More on bys/bes words and diacritical marks<BR><BR><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">The language of Gorseth Kernow is Unified Cornish — though it is not always very good Cornish.</SPAN></FONT>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">The title of one of the lists is as follows:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Hynwyn Tylu pup Barth oll yn aray abecedary </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Since each bard has one surname it would have been better to write</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Hanow Tylu pup Barth…</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Moreover the word aray means 'appearance, display' in traditional Cornish. 'Order' in</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">is ordyr, order.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Abecedary is not attested, having been borrowed from Middle English.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">The Weslh word is egwyddor < Latin abecedarium. I don't understand why</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Nance didn't Cornicise that as *egwedher or similar, or just borrow the English</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">word as *alfabet. I suppose he just wanted to be quaint, as so often.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Apart from Lhuyd the only reference to letters of the alphabet in the texts</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">is: <SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Du gveras a b c</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">an pen can henna yv d BM 99-100.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Had I been asked to translate 'The surname of each bard in alphabetical order' I should have written:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Hanow teylu pub bardh in ordyr an ABC (KS)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Hanow tylu pup barth yn ordyr an ABC (UC).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Baskerville size=5><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 18px">Nicholas</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'" size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><B><BR></B></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="'Times New Roman'" size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 14px"><B><BR></B></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV>On 20 Jul 2008, at 08:58, Harry Fraiser wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
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<DIV>How are these Bardic titles determined? Do their spellings undergo<BR>variation pari passu with orthographical reform?<BR><BR>Harry<BR><BR>On 7/20/08, Craig Weatherhill <<A href="mailto:weatherhill@freenet.co.uk" target=_blank rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:weatherhill@freenet.co.uk">weatherhill@freenet.co.uk</A>> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Oh, now this IS interesting, Pat. Neither Nicholas nor I appear in the<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Bardic roll. Yes, we both resigned our bardship, and the list could say<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">so. However, what the Gorsedd appears to be doing is to write our<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">bardship out of history. The facts remain that I was installed as a<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Bard in 1981 for services to archaeology, and Nicholas rather earlier<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">than that for services to the language. Those facts cannot be discarded<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">simply by omission.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">However, if you then look at the list of Bardic Names, Delynyer<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Hendhyscans is there, followed by the words "resigned" and Weatherhill.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Someone at the Gorsedd is being disingenuous, I feel.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Craig<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Golvan, too is there, correctly identified (by surname only) as Williams<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">- but no mention of resignation.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Pat wrote:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A href="http://www.gorsethkernow.org.uk/english/archives/newbards/bardic_roll.pdf" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.gorsethkernow.org.uk/english/archives/newbards/bardic_roll.pdf</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A href="http://www.gorsethkernow.org.uk/english/archives/newbards/bardic_names.pdf" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.gorsethkernow.org.uk/english/archives/newbards/bardic_names.pdf</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">This is the link to this years which were announced last week.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><A href="http://www.gorsethkernow.org.uk/english/archives/newbards/bard2008.htm" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.gorsethkernow.org.uk/english/archives/newbards/bard2008.htm</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">My apologies for going off topic Michael, but we have recently put 2<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">new lists of Bards on the Gorseth website which can be searched by<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">surname or Bardic names.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Give the URLs?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">--<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com <<A href="http://www.evertype.com/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.evertype.com/</A>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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