<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Baskerville" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Why *Jowann rather than Jowan?</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Baskerville" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Baskerville" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">The plural of meneth is menythyow in the texts:</span></font></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Baskerville; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Baskerville; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">dvn alemma cowythe war menythyow the wandre PC 107-08</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Baskerville; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">drys tenuyn ha menythyow BK 2314.</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Baskerville; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Baskerville; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">In UC this would be written <menydhyow> and indeed it is so written.</span></font></div></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Baskerville" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Baskerville" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">The word nans is used in adverbial phrases (war nans, yn nans) in the texts. It is never used to mean 'valley'.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Baskerville" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">As far as I can see, the only instance of a word for 'valley' in the texts is in</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Baskerville" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Baskerville; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">in valy ebron devery CW 340</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Baskerville; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Baskerville; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">where the word is valy.</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Baskerville; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Baskerville; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Nicholas</span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Baskerville; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Baskerville; "><br></div><div><div>On 26 Jul 2008, at 09:43, Eddie Climo wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On 25 Jul 2008, at 23:01, Koumanonff wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">. . ..There's no need to distinguish them in spelling : they haven't the same functions, one causes mutation and the other doesn't, they don't happen in the same contexts.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Just so, Stefan. Consider this set of sentences, and observe whether or not you get confused by any of them:</div><div><br></div><div><i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1. Yma Jowann ow kerdhes yn nans.</i></div><div><i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2. Yma Jowann ow kerdhes yn tefry.</i></div><div><i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3. Yma Jowann ow kerdhes yn nans yn.</i></div><div><i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4. Yma Jowann ow kerdhes yn nans y'n menedhyow.</i></div><div><i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>5. Yma Jowann ow kerdhes yn tefry yn nans yn y'n menedhyow.<br></i></div><div><br></div><div>Confused? I doubt it, although stylistically the last one is a bit over the top, admittedly!</div><div><br></div><div>Notice that the four homophones are not all exact homographs: one causes a distinctive 5th state mutation, and another has an apostrophe. The only 2 exact homographs are the preposition and the adjective, but they're so distinct in function and context that they're hardly likely to cause serious confusion in learners. I cannot imagine anyone but the most rudimentary learner trying to translate some of these as:</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><i>1. *John is walking nancily<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal;">(Drok yu genef, A Vordon!)</span></i><br></div><div><i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2. *John is walking in a 'tefry' .. . . <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal;">(</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal;">Drat</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal;">, that last word ain't in the dictionary!)</span><br></i></div><div><i><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3. *John is walking nancily in a .. . .<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: normal;"> ( In a what??)</span><br></i></div><br><blockquote type="cite">In Welsh we have three "yn" distinguished by their functions and by the mutations that they may cause :<br>yn + SM (W) used before nouns and adjectives ; with adjectives it can be used as yn + MM (C) to make adverbs.<br>yn + NM (optionally) (W): preposition<br>yn (W) used before verbal nouns, whose function is quite the same as ow + HM (C) and o + MM (B)</blockquote><div><br></div><div>When I learned Welsh, this set never gave me any problems; and, when I taught Welsh (to adult monoglots, mostly!), I don't recall it posing any special problems to them, neither in writing nor in speech.</div><br><blockquote type="cite">I don't think it's more difficult ever to learn Welsh.<br><br>In many languages there no need to distinguish homonyms as they occur in different contexts and don't have the same functions.<br><br>Stefan</blockquote><br></div><div>The fact is that many languages have homonyms and homphones, and as long as the number isn't excessive. there's little confusion, if any.</div><div><br></div><div>Eddiie</div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Spellyans mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Spellyans@kernowek.net">Spellyans@kernowek.net</a><br>http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net<br></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>