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<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=navy
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Michael Everson<br>
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:17 PM</span></font><span lang=EN-GB><br>
<br>
</span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 10 Feb 2010, at 17:06, Daniel Prohaska
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> “Change” is interpretable.
I wasn’t aware of KS taking UC/R as a <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> default spelling and adapting from
there, I thought it was <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> “informed” by the SWF and
changed accordingly if necessary.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>“One of the things about the SWF to
which we have a general objection is its wholesale adoption of Ken George's
"etymological" vowels in unstressed syllables.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=black
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=navy
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>I wasn’t
speaking of “wholesale adoption of Ken George’s “etymological”
vowels in unstressed syllables”, but rather of following his etymologies
where he is actually right. Change them, of course, where he isn’t. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=navy
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Your critical
stance concerning Ken George’s work should not stand in the way of adopting
an unobjectionable form that is consensual. Being anti-George for the sake of
being ant-George is not rational. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> As you know, the SWF takes the KK-form
as default with Vocalic <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> Alternation from UC, back-checked
against the attestations, which <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> means that the KK-form <tenewen>
has to be proven wrong to warrant <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> “change”.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>“Yes, and we know that you agree with
George that "gavar" 'goat' should be spelt "gaver" despite
the fact that of course it rhymes with words like "lavar".”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=black
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=navy
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>This is hardly
an argument, especially coming from you, since you have on many occasions tried
to convince people that both written –<b><i><span style='font-weight:
bold;font-style:italic'>er</span></i></b> and –<b><i><span
style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>ar</span></i></b> are pronounced /@r/.
They still rhyme, even if written <b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>lavar</span></i></b> and <b><i><span style='font-weight:
bold;font-style:italic'>gaver</span></i></b>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=navy
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Would you
point out where <b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>gaver</span></i></b>
and <b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>lavar</span></i></b>
rhyme in the texts? I can’s seem to find an example.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> I find no fault with this spelling,
however. Not only is this form <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> well attested (VC, RD, PA, <st1:place
w:st="on">OM</st1:place>, BM), but it appears to make sense <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> from an etymological point of view.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>“It may, but I for one do not accept
George's etymologies on spec.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=black
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=navy
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Nor should
you. It’s good to be critical and to question etymologies, all
etymologies, not just George’s. It is every linguist’s right to
come up with his or her own interpretation, if founded and argued accordingly. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> The word is related to <tanow>
“thin” and the i-mutation must have <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> come from somewhere. Also, compare the
Welsh cognate <tenewyn, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> tynewyn>. The spelling
<tenewyn> is also attested in PA. Note that <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> the adverbial phrase <a denewen>
is never attested with –an in the <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> unstressed syllable. I’m not
proposing a “change” in respect to the <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> agreed guidelines of the SWF and since
KS is “informed” by the SWF <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> rather than UC/R, it is you who
“changed” the form back to what <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> Nance had and Nicholas took over in
UCR.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>“As I said, one of the objections we
have to the SWF is its treatment of vowels in unstressed syllables.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=black
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=navy
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Yes, I have
my reservations, too, though I feel obliged to work within the SWF rules. I
know you don’t, but it’s just one feature more where KS will differ
from the agreed consensual SWF form. Legitimate in itself, but unnecessary in
this case, I feel.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> My retention of the form
<tenewen> has rationale, does your change <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>> to <tenewan> have a reason?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>“As I said, there is some reason to
change tenewan to tenewen, and that is that when a new syllable is added, the
stressed vowel is /e/. (Related words in Welsh is not a strongly convincing
factor.)”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=black
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=navy
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Why not? If
indeed the Welsh cognate shows <<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>tenewyn</span></i></b>> or <<b><i><span
style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>tynewyn</span></i></b>>, then why
do you dismiss this out of hand. If the connection to <b><i><span
style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>tanow</span></i></b> is real, then a
front vowel is more likely than a low central or back vowel because of
progressive i-umlaut. Do you not accept that Welsh <<b><i><span
style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>tenewyn</span></i></b>/<b><i><span
style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>tynewyn</span></i></b>> is the
cognate form? Do you not accept an etymological connection to <b><i><span
style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>tanow</span></i></b>?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>“That's a genuine rationale. Apart
from a rationale such as that, I consider George's etymologies to be a cosmetic
nuisance. "Myttin" has an "i" because of Latin
"matina". That is a poor justification at best.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=black
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=navy
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>The <b><i><span
style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>y~i</span></i></b> issue is a
completely different matter and unrelated to a sensible standardisation in the
distribution of unstressed <b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>e~a</span></i></b>.
The matter of the distribution of <b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>i~y</span></i></b> is, and here I agree with you, a
difficult point and one where I’m not convinced that the SWF has the best
solution. On the other hand, I’m not entirely convinced where KS’s
solution is concerned. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>“It is George who made the changes
from UC in the first place. Where those changes were unwarranted (i.e.
unnecessary) we have tended to remain conservative.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=black
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=navy
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Yes, but that
was a while ago and three orthographies back. To speak of “change”
is misleading as for many people who have learnt Cornish through KK it is not “change”
at all. That is the whole point about compromise and consensus. I understand
anyone, who would disagree with the principal SWF rule to use the KK form as
default unless other rules come into play, but this is the way the SWF works. I
object to KKisms that aren’t warranted by textual attestations, but words
like <b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>taves</span></i></b>,
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>gaver</span></i></b> and
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>tenewen</span></i></b>
are. They are thus attested. There is no reason to reject these forms, simply
because they also occur in KK. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'>“As I say, I think that the stressed
vowel in tenwennow is grounds for re-spelling tenewan to tenewen.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=black
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=navy
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Yes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 color=navy
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Dan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText style='page-break-after:avoid'><font size=3 face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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