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<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Gentium;color:navy'>

<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Gentium;color:navy;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Gentium;color:navy'>
nicholas williams<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, November 18, 2010
11:57 PM</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
</span></font><span lang=EN-GB>”</span><span class=apple-style-span><font
size=1 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Lhuyd
writes  <i><span style='font-style:italic'>davadzheth </span></i>AB: 223,
 <i><span style='font-style:italic'>tavadzheth</span></i> AB: 223 on the
basis of Welsh <i><span style='font-style:italic'>tafodiaeth</span></i>. But he
also writes</span></font></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><i><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia;font-style:italic'>volyndzheth</span></font></i></span><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'> AB: 224. But the adjective is <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>volondzhedhek</span></i> AB: 223,  <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>volyndzhedhek</span></i> AB: 223 x 2.</span></font></span><span
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>This seems to imply
final Welsh <i><span style='font-style:italic'>th</span></i> is final <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>th</span></i> in Cornish,</span></font></span><span
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>and that final
etymological <i><span style='font-style:italic'>dh</span></i> is devoiced after
an unstressed vowel but is voiced intervocalically.</span></font></span><span
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Or to put it another
way: revived Cornish should write <i><span style='font-style:italic'>bolunjeth</span></i>
but <i><span style='font-style:italic'>bolunjedhek</span></i>.</span></font></span><span
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>The SWF writes
<bolonjedh>. <font color=navy><span style='color:navy'>“</span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Gentium;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Gentium;color:navy'>Why can it not write
<<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>bolonjedh</span></i></b>>
[bɔˈlʊnʤəθ] and <<b><i><span style='font-weight:
bold;font-style:italic'>bolonjedhek</span></i></b>> [ˌbɔlənˈʤɛðək]?
It’s just like spelling schwa in the unstressed syllable with the vowel
graph of the phoneme that “resurfaces” when a suffix is added and
the stress shifted to the former post-tonic syllable. I don’t get why
your so adamant about showing unvoicing when the voiced consonant pops up again
in derivatives. Why the double standard?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Lhuyd also cites the
plurals of <i><span style='font-style:italic'>broder</span></i>, <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>el</span></i> and <i><span style='font-style:italic'>abostol</span></i>
as ending in -<i><span style='font-style:italic'>edh</span></i>.  But he
says</span></font></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>"The Fourth Plural
Termination formerly (as still in Welsh) in <i><span style='font-style:italic'>edh</span></i>;
as <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Brederedh</span></i>, Brothers; <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>Eledh</span></i>, Angels;</span></font></span><span
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><i><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia;font-style:italic'>Abesteledh</span></font></i></span><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>, Apostles. Which pronunciation was
more anciently expressed by t; as <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Guraget</span></i>,
Wives for <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Guragedh</span></i>. </span></font></span><span
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>It's at present changed
into <i><span style='font-style:italic'>es</span></i> arccording to their
writing; but into <i><span style='font-style:italic'>ez</span></i>, according
to their Pronunciation. So that it seems but a sort of French or modern English
Plural; as <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Bestez</span></i>, Beasts; <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>Koles</span></i>, Coles; <i><span style='font-style:
italic'>Romes</span></i>, Rooms, <i><span style='font-style:italic'>gulles</span></i>,
Guls; <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Pysgez</span></i> , Fish; <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>Panez</span></i>, Parsnips; <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>Zillies</span></i>, eels or Congers;</span></font></span><span
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><i><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia;font-style:italic'>Lahez</span></font></i></span><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>, Laws; <i><span style='font-style:
italic'>Benenez</span></i>, Women,† <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Flexez</span></i>,
Children"† AB: 243a.</span></font></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Lhuyd is thus saying
that once upon a time there was a Cornish plural in -<i><span style='font-style:
italic'>et</span></i> (pronounced -<i><span style='font-style:italic'>edh</span></i>
as in Welsh [modern W -<i><span style='font-style:italic'>edd</span></i>]) but
this ending is no longer used, and the Cornish now use an English/French
plural in -<i><span style='font-style:italic'>es</span></i> (pronounced -ez<i><span
style='font-style:italic'>)</span></i>.</span></font></span><span lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>This is quite clear.
Lhuyd didn't hear the plural -<i><span style='font-style:italic'>edh</span></i>
in <i><span style='font-style:italic'>brederedh</span></i>, <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>eledh</span></i>, <i><span style='font-style:italic'>abesteledh</span></i>,
but it was, he says, found in Cornish. This must be on the basis of his reading
only. The ending, he says, is now replaced by -<i><span style='font-style:italic'>es</span></i>.</span></font></span><span
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>He was quite right in
this, since in his day the plural of <i><span style='font-style:italic'>el</span></i>
'angel' was indeed <i><span style='font-style:italic'>elez</span></i>:</span></font></span><span
lang=EN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><i><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia;font-style:italic'>Mero, <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>Elez</span></b> Neeue a desquethaz ha Joseph a ve
hendrez</span></font></i></span><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1
face=Georgia><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>
'Behold, angels from heaven appeared to Joseph who was dreaming' Kerew</span></font></span><font
size=1 face=Baskerville><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:
Baskerville'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><i><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia;font-style:italic'>mero <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>Elez</span></b> Neue theath tha Joseph en cuska en
Egyp</span></font></i></span><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1
face=Georgia><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>
'Behold, angels from heaven came to Joseph asleep in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
 w:st="on">Egypt</st1:place></st1:country-region>' Kerew</span></font></span><font
size=1 face=Baskerville><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:
Baskerville'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>h<i><span
style='font-style:italic'>a mere <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Elez</span></b>
neve theth, ha droze thotha</span></i> 'and behold angels of heaven came and
brought [food] to him' Kerew.</span></font></span><font size=1
face=Baskerville><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:Baskerville'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Baskerville><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:Baskerville'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>So Lhuyd didn't actually
hear <i><span style='font-style:italic'>eleth</span></i>, <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>bredereth</span></i>, <i><span style='font-style:
italic'>abesteleth</span></i>. He assumed them by analogy with his native
Welsh. And the same is true for other plurals ending in unstressed -<i><span
style='font-style:italic'>edh</span></i>. So Lhuyd's evidence for final -<i><span
style='font-style:italic'>edh</span></i> in such items is not to be trusted.</span></font></span><font
size=1 face=Baskerville><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:
Baskerville'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>He also says that
'wives' was written <i><span style='font-style:italic'>guraget</span></i> with
a plural ending -<i><span style='font-style:italic'>et</span></i>,  but
this is not so; the plural ending is -<i><span style='font-style:italic'>ath </span></i>i.e.
with <th>: <b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>gwregath</span></i></b>
TH 31; <b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>gwregath</span></i></b>
CW 2437. Lhuyd is clearly an unreliable source.</span></font></span><font
size=1 face=Baskerville><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:
Baskerville'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Lhuyd also says <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>menedh</span></i> is now <i><span style='font-style:
italic'>mener</span></i> and he writes <i><span style='font-style:italic'>volyndzheth</span></i>
for <i><span style='font-style:italic'>bolùnjeth; </span></i>he also writes <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>noweth</span></i>/<i><span style='font-style:italic'>noweT</span></i>
and <i><span style='font-style:italic'>guironeth</span></i>.</span></font></span><font
size=1 face=Baskerville><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:
Baskerville'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Baskerville><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:Baskerville'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>The Lhuydian evidence
for unstressed final -<i><span style='font-style:italic'>edh</span></i> is
beginning to look pretty thin.</span></font></span><font size=1
face=Baskerville><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:Baskerville'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Baskerville><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:Baskerville'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Georgia'>Nicholas<font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'>”</span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Gentium;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Gentium;color:navy'>No, Nicholas, it doesn’t.
You’re interpreting with your phonological model in the back of your
mind. You’re not willing to let go of that – you needn’t, not
if it were even shown in a Revived Cornish orthography, as this ca be done by a
simple rule. As I said, I’m not even arguing against the possible
unvoicing in this position – in fact I show it in my dictionary, but I
also accept that the voiced sound can re-appear before vowels and in
derivatives. What’s so difficult to understand about that? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Gentium;color:navy'>Dan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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