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<body lang=RU link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Charis SIL"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Charis SIL"'>Breton has both <i><span style='font-style:italic'>pewarzeg</span></i>
(ZH <i><span style='font-style:italic'>pevarzek</span></i>) < <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>pewarðeg</span></i></span></font><font
face="Charis SIL"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Charis SIL"'>, </span></font><font
face="Charis SIL"><span style='font-family:"Charis SIL"'>and <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>pemzeg</span></i> (ZH <i><span style='font-style:
italic'>pemzek</span></i>) < <i><span style='font-style:italic'>pemðeg</span></i>,
with no trace of <i><span style='font-style:italic'>*pemzheg</span></i> (ZH *<i><span
style='font-style:italic'>pemzhek</span></i>) < *<i><span style='font-style:
italic'>pemθeg</span></i> which should have given */pemheg/ in Gwened. It looks
as if Breton and, quite possibly, Cornish gave a different treatment to the
word for “fifteen” from Welsh.</span></font><font face="Charis SIL"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Charis SIL"'> Lhuyd’s <i><span style='font-style:
italic'>pemdhak</span></i> may well have been correct.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Charis SIL"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Charis SIL"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Charis SIL"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Charis SIL"'>Steve Hewitt<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Cambria><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:Cambria;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

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face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>

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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
spellyans-bounces@kernowek.net [mailto:spellyans-bounces@kernowek.net] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>nicholas williams<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, November 22, 2010
10:03 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Standard
 Cornish discussion list</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Spellyans] th/dh</span></font><span
lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=4 face=Georgia><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Georgia'>In Welsh the form is <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>pymtheg</span></i> with a voiceless medial <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>th</span></i>. When the group mth is dissimilated to
th in the word <i><span style='font-style:italic'>pythefnos</span></i>
'fortnight' the <i><span style='font-style:italic'>th</span></i> (rather than <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>dd</span></i>) is even more apparent.</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><i><font size=4 face=Georgia><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Georgia;font-style:italic'>Pythefnos</span></font></i></span><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=4 face=Georgia><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:Georgia'> is etymologically identical with Irish <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>coicís</span></i> 'fortnight', earlier <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>coicthis</span></i>, with a voiceless internal group.
The simplex is OIr <i><span style='font-style:italic'>cóic</span></i> 'five',
Modern Irish <i><span style='font-style:italic'>cúig</span></i> where the final
is voiced.</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=4 face=Georgia><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Georgia'>So both Goedelic and Brythonic
have a voiced final and and a voiceless internal group in a derivative of
'fifteen'</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=4 face=Georgia><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Georgia'>Why then should Cornish have <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>pymdhek</span></i>?</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=4 face=Georgia><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Georgia'>Pryce writes <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>pemdhak</span></i> in imitation of Lhuyd, because
much of his <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Arch. Cornu-Brit</span></i>. was
plagiarised from AB.</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=4 face=Georgia><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Georgia'>But Jenner in his collection of
numerals from Mount's Bay 1875 (See Michael's edition of Jenner page 242) gives
<i><span style='font-style:italic'>pempthak</span></i> 'fifteen' from the
Kelynacks and <i><span style='font-style:italic'>pemthack</span></i> from Mrs
Soady.</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=4 face=Georgia><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Georgia'>Since Jenner in these lists writes
<i><span style='font-style:italic'>daudhak</span></i> 'twelve', and <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>bizwaudhak</span></i> 'fourteen' for example, I think
we can be reasonably certain that Lhuyd's <i><span style='font-style:italic'>pemdhak</span></i>
is indeed mistaken. The evidence from Mount's Bay indicates that
traditional spoken Cornish had <i><span style='font-style:italic'>th</span></i> in
the word <i><span style='font-style:italic'>pymthek</span></i>, not <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>dh</span></i>.</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=4 face=Georgia><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Georgia'>To suggest that Lhuyd's <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>pemdhak</span></i> is correct looks to me like
special pleading.</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=4 face=Georgia><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Georgia'>Nicholas</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 2010 Du 22, at 02:53, Owen Cook wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-converted-space><font size=4
face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'><span
style='orphans: 2;widows: 2;-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'> </span></font></span><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=4 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:Helvetica'>How do you know that 15 was [pemθək] and not [pemðək]?</span></font></span><font
size=4 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'><br>
<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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</span>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

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