<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Sure, even lexicographers may err: <i>tea minima culpa, amice!</i><div><br></div><div>I've done a cursory search of such electronic texts as are at my disposal, and Nicholas seems to be right about *(<b>fatel</b> + verb-noun) not being attested. All I could find was it being used with finite forms, alas.</div><div><br></div><div>I did, however, find one suggestive usage (of which more anon), in Carer Brynyow's translation of Ch.19 of 'Trystan hag Ysolt':</div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Times; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;">Fatel yllyr danvon dhedhy</span></font><span style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px;"> / </span></font></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14px; ">bos ethom mur dhym anedhy?</span></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Let's remind ourselves of the original passage from MAGA:</div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Georgia"><i>The training will cover how to interview people, how to edit material, how to put a programme together…</i></font></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Georgia"><i>An trenyans a wra mires orth fatel wul keswelyow, fatel drehi rekordyansow, fatel wul towlen…</i></font></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>I suggest these possibilities for translating it (in my preferred UC spelling):</div><div><b>•1) An trenyans a wra myres orth gul keswelyow, treghy recordyansow, gul towlen…</b></div><div><b>•2) An trenyans a wra myres orth gwreans keswelyans, ha towlen, treghyans recordyansow…</b></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><i>(no need to deal with the fatel/how-to issue in these paradigms)</i></div><div><b>•3) An trenyans a wra myres orth fatel wrer keswelyow ha towlen, treghy recordyansow…</b></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><i>(the impersonal/passive sidesteps the issue Nicholas raises)</i></div><div>…And, of course, there's Nicholas' rewording to be borne in mind:</div><div><b>•4) An trenyans a wra myres orth an forth dhe wul keswelyansow…</b></div><div><br></div><div>Moving away from the '<b>fatel</b>' part of this passage, I'm not overjoyed at their use of <b>'myras orth'</b> for <i>'to cover'</i>. There's an idea of thoroughness and comprehensiveness connoted by '<i>cover</i>' that just isn't there with a mere <b>'myras orth'</b> (which could be no more than a quick peek).</div><div><br></div><div>I wonder if one might try the metaphorical use of words like '<b>kelghy</b>', '<b>gorheas</b>' or '<b>kerghynna</b>' to give a flavour of the same meaning as '<i>cover</i>'. NJAW (2006) has all of these under '<i>encompass</i>', as well as the macaronic 'compassa' and 'comprehendya'—Govy, ellas, ogh ha tru!</div><div><br></div><div>Any thoughts?</div><div><div apple-content-edited="true"> <div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; font-family: Helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: SlimbachITC; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: SlimbachITC; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: SlimbachITC; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: SlimbachITC; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: SlimbachITC; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: SlimbachITC; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">Eddie Foirbeis Climo</div><div>- -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- -</div><div>Dres ethom akennow byner re bo lyeshes</div><div><i>Accenti non multiplicandi praeter necessitatem</i></div></span></span></span></span></span></div></span></div></span></div> </div><br><div><div>On 15 Kev 2010, at 11:12, nicholas williams wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Georgia">The word fatell is, I believe, a compound of <i>forth</i> + <i>dell</i>.</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Georgia"><i>Fatell</i> and <i>dell</i> are both used exclusively before a finite verb.</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Georgia">If any writer of Cornish, myself included, has used, <i>dell</i> or <i>fatell</i> before a noun or a verbal noun, he or she has made a mistake.</font></div></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>