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<body lang=DE link=blue vlink=purple style='tab-interval:35.4pt;word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>

<div class=Section1>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>From</span></font></i></b><font color=navy><span lang=EN-GB
style='color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>: spellyans-bounces@kernowek.net
[mailto:spellyans-bounces@kernowek.net] <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>On Behalf Of</span></font></i></b><font color=navy><span lang=EN-GB
style='color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'> <span class=GramE>nicholas</span>
williams<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>Sent</span></font></i></b><font color=navy><span lang=EN-GB
style='color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>: Saturday, July 16, 2011 1:19 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>To</span></font></i></b><font color=navy><span lang=EN-GB
style='color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Standard
 Cornish discussion list</st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>Subject</span></font></i></b><font color=navy><span lang=EN-GB
style='color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>: [<span class=SpellE>Spellyans</span>]
puns, pens<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>“The vowel of the Cornish word
for 'pound' is not clear to me. Cornish <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>puns</span></i> must be
the same word as Welsh <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>punt</span></i>.” <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>I would tend to
agree.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>“And this is probably
identical with Irish <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>punt</span></i>, <span
class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:
italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>punta</span></i></span>. It would seem that the
word was borrowed into Welsh and Cornish from Old English <span class=SpellE><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>pund</span></i></span> (with a long vowel).” <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>OE originally had a
short vowel in <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pund</span></i></span>
(cf. <span class=SpellE>OFrisian</span> <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pund</span></i></span>,
<span class=SpellE>OSaxon</span> <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pund</span></i></span>,
German <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Pfund</span></i></span>);
the vowel only became long at the end of the OE period (10<sup>th</sup> – 11<sup>th</sup>
<span class=SpellE>c</span>.), /<span class=SpellE>nd</span>/ (OE <span
class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:
italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pund</span></i></span>, <span class=SpellE><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>bindan</span></i></span> > <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pūnd</span></i></span>,
<span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>bīndan</span></i></span>
> <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;
mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pound</span></i>, <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>bind</span></i>),
along with other instances of vowel lengthening before homorganic clusters /ld/
(<span class=SpellE>Anglian</span> OE <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>ald</span></i></span>
> <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>āld</span></i></span>
> <span class=SpellE>ModE</span> <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>old</span></i>), /<span
class=SpellE>mb</span>/ (OE <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>climban</span></i></span>
> <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>clīmban</span></i></span>
> <span class=SpellE>ModE</span> <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>climb</span></i>), /<span
class=SpellE>rđ</span>/ (OE <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>eorđe</span></i></span>
> <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>ēorđe</span></i></span>
> <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;
mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>earth</span></i>), /<span class=SpellE>rl</span>/
(OE <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>eorl</span></i></span>
> <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>ēorl</span></i></span>
> <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;
mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>earl</span></i>), /<span class=SpellE>rn</span>/
(OE <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>leornian</span></i></span>
> <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>lēornian</span></i></span>
> <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;
mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>learn</span></i>). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Cornish and Welsh
must have borrowed OE <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pund</span></i></span>
after the lengthening to <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pūnd</span></i></span>,
as borrowing the short vowel would likely have given Welsh **<span
class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:
italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pwnt</span></i></span>. As of the latter
half of the 6<sup>th</sup> century Late British would not have had a long [uː]
as older Brit. *<i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:
italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>ū</span></i> (< <i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>au</span></i>, <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>eu</span></i></span>, <span
class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:
italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>ou</span></i></span>, <span class=SpellE><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>oi</span></i></span>, + Lat. <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>ū</span></i>) had
become /y/. I’m assuming Welsh (and Cornish) speakers would have substituted
their /y/ when pronouncing OE <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pūnd</span></i></span>.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>“The borrowing must have been early
enough for the vowel to front to [y] in <span class=SpellE>Brythonic</span> and
for the final [<span class=SpellE>nd</span>] to become [<span class=SpellE><span
class=GramE>nt</span></span>]. This then was assibilated in Cornish to [ns].”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>See above, the
fronted vowel may have been substitution. The absence of the etymon in Breton
may indicate a later borrowing into W and C, as an early borrowing would also
have been part of Breton. It is always possible that the word was lost in
Breton later without ever having been recorded. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>“The attested forms in the
Cornish texts are puns, <span class=SpellE>punsov</span>, <span
class=SpellE>bynsow</span>, pens. What is the evidence for SWF <span
class=SpellE>peuns</span>, <span class=SpellE>peunsow</span>?”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>The evidence for
SWF <span class=SpellE><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>peuns</span></i></b></span>
is the LC form <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:
italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pens</span></i>, <span class=SpellE><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>penz</span></i></span>; MC /ś/ > LC /ɛ/ where MC <span
class=SpellE><span class=GramE>freuquently</span></span> writes <u> for /ś/;
hence the assumption that LC <e> would go back to MC /ś/ rather than /</span></font><font
color=navy><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:KO'>y</span></font><font
color=navy><span lang=EN-GB style='color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>/.
However LC /ɪ/ and /ɛ/ were not always kept separate. Pryce also
record a curious <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>poyns</span></i></span>, <span
class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:
italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>poynsew</span></i></span> but this may be a
contamination with <span class=SpellE><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>poys</span></i></b></span>
‘weight, pound weight’.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>On the other hand I
see no other example how and why OE <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pund</span></i></span>
or <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pūnd</span></i></span>
should have become <span class=SpellE>Prim.C</span> */<span class=SpellE>pɔnt</span>/
> OC */<span class=SpellE>pśnt</span>/ > MC */<span class=SpellE>pśnz</span>/.
So, while the LC form <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>penz</span></i></span>
suggests *<span class=SpellE><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>peuns</span></i></b></span>,
I find it very doubtful. The alternative is always to allow MC variant <b
style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;
mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>puns</span></i></b> and LC variant <b
style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;
mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pens</span></i></b>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>“In BK we find <i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>try <span class=SpellE>myl</span> <span class=SpellE>bowns</span> <span
class=SpellE>i’n</span> <span class=SpellE>blethan</span></span></i> (BK 2103).
Is this the plural of <span class=SpellE>pownd</span> < NE pound?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=3
face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Mil</span></font></i><span
lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'> is normally followed by the
singular and indeed we find <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>Awos</span></i></span><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'> <span class=SpellE>myl</span> buns <span class=SpellE><span
class=GramE>ny</span></span> <span class=SpellE>vynsen</span></span></i> at BK
1211. Is <span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>bowns</span></i></span> a
spelling for *<i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:
italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>buns</span></i> contaminated by English
<i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;
mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pound</span></i>?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Nicholas”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Yes, I should think
it is a contamination of <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>puns</span></i> with the
vocalism of English <i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>pound</span></i>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Dan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

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