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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia>Many thanks, Nicholas!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia>These examples really do help give a flavour of
how to express such tricky constructions. I know they probably seem
very obscure but it's the sort of thing the phenomenally precisionist
way the likes of French and Latin grammar traditionally was
presented so it leaves one with an ingrained need to know how other
languages tackle these concept which if not satisfied tends to make
one feel onehasn't quite mastered the tongue! I find the best way to grasp how
to do it is to have loads of examples, translated in a literal word-for-word way
and some grammatical explanation appended. Not the modern 'direct' method, I
know, but I've always felt that too haphazard a way to acquire a confident
, overall grip. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia>You mention the distinction between interrogative
and relative which we were always taught to watch out for, and, moreover, to
distinguish between interrogative pronouns and interrogative adjectives;
and between relative pronouns and relative adjectives. All very hair
splitting but in some languages the distinctions are vital to know as
they can lead to different constructions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia>Anyway, many thanks for the ample examples and
explanations. Good old parsing and sentence
analysis! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia>Ewan.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=njawilliams@gmail.com href="mailto:njawilliams@gmail.com">nicholas
williams</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=spellyans@kernowek.net
href="mailto:spellyans@kernowek.net">Standard Cornish discussion list</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 19, 2011 9:04
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Spellyans] 'who' in
Cornish</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Georgia><FONT
class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span>There is no relative pronoun in Cornish. Thus there can
be no word corresponding to relative <I>whose</I>.</SPAN></FONT></FONT>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>Instead of such a
pronoun one uses the relative particle <I>a</I> (or no particle before vowels
in <I>bos</I> an <I>mos</I>)</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>If the antecedent
is neither the object nor the subject in the relative clause, but is governed
by a preposition in English, </SPAN></FONT></FONT><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>a
prepositional pronoun is used in Cornish.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I>tus benegas ha benenas in testament coth a rug vsia
gwyska yscar ha canfas garow, an pith <B>a vetha gwrys</B> syehar
<B>anotha</B></I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>'holy
men and women in the old testament used to wear hessian and rough canvas, that
which bags used to be made from' TH 6a</SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I>ny a yll bos sure, fatell ra eff in tyrmyn ay
vicitacyon agan humbrag ny in ban then <B>wlas</B> <B>vgy</B> y
vab Jhesus crist <B>inhy tregys</B></I> 'we can be sure, that he will in
the time of his visitation lead us </SPAN></FONT></FONT><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>up to the
kingdom in which his son Jesus Christ dwells' TH 11a</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I>kepar ha in gweder why a yll gwelas ha percevia gas
bewnans ha gothfas in <B>pana danger</B> <B>esow</B> why <B>inna</B></I>
'as in a glass you can see and perceive your life and know what kind of danger
in which you are' TH 28a</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I>Alas, <B>pana cas </B></I><B><I>vsy</I></B><I> an
rena </I><B><I>inna</I></B><I> neb a rug seperatya aga honyn ha naha an
catholyk egglos</I> 'Alas what a plight are those people in who separated
themselves and denied the Catholic church' TH 32a</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I>ha mar te ha gull </I><B><I>an dra a ra</I></B><I>
an perill skynnya </I></SPAN></FONT></FONT><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><B><I>anotha</I></B><I> wosa y bosa gwarnys y fowt ew
the vrassa ha the voy </I>'and if he goes and does the thing from which the
danger derives after he has been warned, his fault is the greater' TH
4</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I>hen o an gwryoneth an </I><B><I>catholyk feith a rug
eff cowse anotha</I></B> 'that was the truth of the Catholic faith of which he
spoke' TH 18a</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I>ha in aga myske yth esa
</I><B><I>henna</I></B><I> </I><B><I>esa</I></B><I> crist pub vr </I><B><I>ow
kull mer anotha</I></B><I>, henn o S Johan</I> 'and among them was he of whom
Christ always made much, that is St John' TH
43</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I>kepar hag one ledys then folde <B>the vos knevys</B>
<B>y knew</B> the veis </I>'like a lamb lead to the fold whose fleece is to be
cut off' TH 23</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span>I can at present find no exact parallels to your
sentence with relative <I>whose</I> in them, though the last is perhaps the
closest. Your sentences in Cornish would use a similar
syntax:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>This
is the man whose house you viewed: <I>Hèm yw an den <B>a wrussowgh why miras
</B>orth <B>y jy</B></I>.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>This
is the man whose house fell down: <I>Hèm yw an den <B>a wrug y jy codha</B>
dhe'n dor.</I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>He is
the man on whose shoulder the pigeon landed: <I>Ev yw an den <B>a wrug </B>an
golom <B>lôndya wàr y scoodh</B></I>. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>John
is the man whose shoulders sagged under the weight: <I>Jowan yw an den <B>a
wre y scodhow plegya</B> in dàn an poos</I>.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>Your
first three sentences are not relative, but interrogative. Here one can use
the defective verb <I>pew</I> 'owns'; cf.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
face=Georgia><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=5><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I>N</I></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT
class=Apple-style-span size=5 face=Georgia><I>e</I><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span><I> ren vry </I><B><I>pew a’s
pewa</I></B><I>, kyn fe va arluth mar vras</I> 'We don't care whose it
is, be he a so great lord' BK 100-01.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span>So:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>Whose
house fell down? <I>Pyw a bew an chy a godhas?</I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>Whose
house did you view? <I><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal"
class=Apple-style-span>Pyw a bew an chy</SPAN></B> a wrussowgh why miras
orto?</I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>From
whose phone were you calling? <I>Pyw a bew an pellgowser esewgh why ow kelwel
dhyworto?</I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I><BR></I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>For
the first two you might also say:<I> Pyw eus tregys i'n chy a godhas?
</I>and<I> Pyw eus tregys i'n chy a wrussowgh why miras
orto?</I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I><BR></I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px" class=Apple-style-span>For
the last one might also say<I> Pyw a ros dhywgh y bellgowser dhe elwel
dhyworto?</I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I><BR></I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I><BR></I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span>Nicholas</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I><BR></I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><I><BR></I></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px; FONT: 12px Baskerville"><FONT class=Apple-style-span
size=5 face=Georgia><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 2011 Gor 18, at 20:04, ewan wilson wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia>Whose house fell down?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia>Whose house did you view?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia>From whose phone were you
calling?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia>The man whose house you viewed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia>The man whose house fell down.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia>The man on whose shoulder the pigeon
landed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Georgia>The man whose shoulders sagged.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2
face=Georgia></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Spellyans mailing
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