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<body lang=DE link=blue vlink=purple style='tab-interval:35.4pt;word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>

<div class=Section1>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Gentium;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>I
agree with Eddie. The corpus of traditional Cornish is too small to discard
anything that can be shown to have been part of the language at some point, be
it attestations from before or after the Middle Cornish period, place, personal
and field names, etc. I thought this was the principle of <span class=SpellE><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>tota</span></i></span><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><span
style='font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'> <span class=SpellE>Cornicitas</span></span></i>.
On the other hand I’m with Nicholas when it comes down to avoiding pedantic
purism and avoiding English/French/Latin, even Hebrew, loans at all costs. No
word should be discarded from the modern revived language, be it Celtic or loan.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Gentium;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Of
course a glossary of limited size, aimed at first year learners of the language
cannot by definition cover the entire traditional corpus of Cornish, while at
the same time giving neologisms for relevant use today. I do believe all these
words should be part of a more comprehensive dictionary, though.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Gentium;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Dan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Gentium;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Gentium;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>

<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Gentium;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;
color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Gentium;mso-bidi-font-family:
Tahoma;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'> spellyans-bounces@kernowek.net
[mailto:spellyans-bounces@kernowek.net] <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Gentium;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;
color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></font></b><font
color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Gentium;mso-bidi-font-family:
Tahoma;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Eddie Climo<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:29
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Standard
 Cornish discussion list</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [<span class=SpellE>Spellyans</span>]
borrowing ~ purism</span></font><font color=navy face=Gentium><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-family:Gentium;color:navy;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>On 2011 <span class=SpellE>Gor</span>
29, at 17:22, <span class=GramE>nicholas</span> williams wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>

<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>I notice that under Course
(direction) the glossary gives <span class=SpellE><i><span style='font-style:
italic'>hyns</span></i></span>. This word is unattested in Old, Middle and Late
Cornish.</span></font><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</blockquote>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Nance 1938 says that '<span
class=SpellE><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>hins</span></b></span>' is found
in the Old-Cornish Vocabulary; in his "Guide to <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address
 w:st="on">Cornish Place</st1:address></st1:Street>-names", he gives the
older form as ˘'<span class=SpellE>hent</span>'.<br>
<br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Georgia;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>It is found only as an
element in <span class=SpellE><i><span style='font-style:italic'>camhinsic</span></i></span>,
<span class=SpellE><i><span style='font-style:italic'>eunhinsic</span></i></span>,
<span class=SpellE><i><span style='font-style:italic'>kammynsoth</span></i></span>.</span></font><span
lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>So, those words would have
been compounded like this in Old Cornish, presumably:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span><b><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;font-weight:bold'><span style='mso-tab-count:1'>            </span></span></font></b></span><span
class=SpellE><span class=GramE><b><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;font-weight:bold'>camhinsic</span></b></span></span><b><span lang=EN-GB
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;font-weight:bold'> < cam + <span
class=SpellE>hins</span> + -<span class=SpellE>ic</span></span></b><span
lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>. <span class=GramE>unjust</span>, <span
class=SpellE>unrigheous</span>, of evil ways. (UC. <span class=SpellE><b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>camhensek</span></b></span>)<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span><b><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;font-weight:bold'><span style='mso-tab-count:1'>            </span></span></font></b></span><span
class=SpellE><span class=GramE><b><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;font-weight:bold'>eunhinsic</span></b></span></span><b><span lang=EN-GB
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;font-weight:bold'> < <span class=SpellE>eun</span>
+ <span class=SpellE>hins</span> + -<span class=SpellE>ic</span></span></b><span
lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>. <span class=GramE>upright</span>,
just (UC. <span class=SpellE><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>ewnhensek</span></b></span>)<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span><b><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;font-weight:bold'><span style='mso-tab-count:1'>            </span></span></font></b></span><span
class=SpellE><span class=GramE><b><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;font-weight:bold'>kammynsoth</span></b></span></span><b><span lang=EN-GB
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;font-weight:bold'> < <span class=SpellE>kamm</span>
+ <span class=SpellE>hins</span> + -eth</span></b><span lang=EN-GB
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>. <span class=GramE>immorality</span>,
unfairness, unrighteousness (UC. <span class=SpellE><b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>camhenseth</span></b></span>.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>That looks like 3 more
attestations to me. Furthermore, given the slimness of the Cornish lexicon, we
can't afford to turn our noses up at a perfectly usable Cornish word, just
because it's part of a compound. Moreover, '<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>hens</span></b>'
has been in use throughout the whole of the Revival—certainly since 1934, when
it appears in Nance's dictionary of that year. 85 years of usage have made it a
commonly used word. That gives the word any needed legitimacy in the only court
that counts with languages: that of usage. To reject 'hens' smacks of
purism and pedantry!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><br style='mso-special-character:
line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=3 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Under
Carpenter the glossary gives <i><span style='font-style:italic'>ser <span
class=SpellE>prenn</span> </span></i>and a hypothetical RLC<i><span
style='font-style:italic'> ser <span class=SpellE>predn</span></span></i>. <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>…</span></i>It is not attested in Middle Cornish.</span></font></span><span
lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>No matter, '<span
class=SpellE>sairpren</span>' is attested in Old Cornish. Revived Cornish
cannot afford to pick and choose; Old, Middle or <span class=GramE>Late</span>,
if it's attested then that's good enough.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>

<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><i><font size=3 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
font-style:italic'>Ser <span class=SpellE>prenn</span></span></font></i></span><span
class=apple-style-span><font face=Georgia><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:
Georgia;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'> is a respelling of <span
class=SpellE><i><span style='font-style:italic'>sairpren</span></i></span> in
OCV.</span></font></span><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

</blockquote>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Then it can hardly be
'hypothetical', surely.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><br style='mso-special-character:
line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=3 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Georgia;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Under
Chair the glossary gives <span class=SpellE><i><span style='font-style:italic'>cador</span></i></span>,
which is well attested in names of rocks. The ordinary word for 'chair' in the
texts, however, is <i><span style='font-style:italic'>chair</span></i>, <span
class=SpellE><i><span style='font-style:italic'>chayr</span></i></span>:</span></font></span><span
lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>'<span class=SpellE><b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>Cader</span></b></span>' [? spelling] is, I gather,
attested in the OCV. That makes it Cornish. Its presence in <span class=SpellE>toponyms</span>
makes it further attested. I see no problem with using '<span class=SpellE><b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>cader</span></b></span>' in RC.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><br style='mso-special-character:
line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Georgia;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Under
Creator the glossary gives <span class=SpellE><i><span style='font-style:italic'>gwrier</span></i></span>,
<span class=SpellE><i><span style='font-style:italic'>creador</span></i></span>
and <span class=SpellE><i><span style='font-style:italic'>furvyer</span></i></span>.
<span class=SpellE><i><span style='font-style:italic'>Gwrier</span></i></span>
is attested in Middle Cornish. <span class=SpellE><i><span style='font-style:
italic'>Creador</span></i></span> is in OCV. </span></font></span><font size=1
face=Baskerville><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:Baskerville;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=GramE><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>So no problem with
using either of those in RC.</span></font></span><span lang=EN-GB
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><br style='mso-special-character:
line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=SpellE><span class=apple-style-span><i><font
size=1 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Georgia;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;font-style:italic'>Furvyer</span></font></i></span></span><span
class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Georgia;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'> is an
invention. The word <span class=SpellE><i><span style='font-style:italic'>formyer</span></i></span>
is attested in Middle Cornish. Indeed it occurs it occurs in three different
texts.</span></font></span><font size=1 face=Baskerville><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:Baskerville;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>We find in Cornish the
following set of words derived regularly from the stem:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span><b><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;font-weight:bold'><span style='mso-tab-count:1'>            </span></span></font></b></span><span
class=GramE><b><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;font-weight:
bold'>form</span></b></span><b><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
font-weight:bold'> > <span class=SpellE>formya</span> > <span
class=SpellE>formyer</span>.</span></b><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>We also find<span class=GramE>  '<span
class=SpellE>furf</span>'</span> [?spelling] in the OCV at least. <span
class=GramE>so</span> it's perfectly reasonable to extrapolate on the same
paradigm:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span><b><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;font-weight:bold'><span style='mso-tab-count:1'>            </span></span></font></b></span><span
class=SpellE><span class=GramE><b><span lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;font-weight:bold'>furf</span></b></span></span><b><span lang=EN-GB
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;font-weight:bold'> > *<span class=SpellE>furvya</span>
> *<span class=SpellE>furvyer</span>.</span></b><span lang=EN-GB
style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><font size=1 face=Georgia><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Georgia;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Have
the compilers really read the texts?</span></font></span><font size=1
face=Baskerville><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:Baskerville;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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</blockquote>

<p class=MsoNormal><span class=GramE><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>pot</span></font></span><span
lang=EN-GB style='mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'> + kettle = black?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Eddie Climo<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

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