<span style='font-family:Verdana'><span style='font-size:12px'>Not every attestation is questionable to the same extent. We can be fairly sure of the vast majority of attested words in the texts because of the context. Place names are by nature more conjectural. It is evident that they have changed over time and have frequently become corrupted. So we look at the earliest attestation that we can find for a given place name. But even that is not the original version, as it was written when the place was first named. Might  <em>-gluth/-gloth</em> be examples of OC <em>cluit</em> (VC 838), 'hurdle', 'palisade', or some other lexeme perhaps? The earliest attestations of CARGLOTH end in -<em>an.</em> Why? The earliest attestation of TRUNGLE has <e> which later became <u> then <o> then <ei> then <y>, etc.. Moreover we need to examine the original manuscripts where these place names are attested, since letters are often not clearly written and are easily confused by a transcriber. And if the source manuscript is itself a transcription ....<br /> 
Ol an gwella,<br /> 
Jon<br /> 
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                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">----- Original Message -----</span></span></p> 
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                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">From: Daniel Prohaska</span></span></p> 
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                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Sent: 05/15/12 02:38 PM</span></span></p> 
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                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">To: Standard Cornish discussion list</span></span></p> 
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                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Is there a future for the SWF?</span></span></p> 
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                        But Jon, we could question every other attestation on the same ground. At some point we have to say with the available evidence, that it's very, very, very, very likely this is an instance of our */klœːð/ and if proof comes to light later on that it isn't well then so be it, make the necessary adjustments. <br /> 
                        Dan</div> 
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                                On May 15, 2012, at 3:26 PM, Jon Mills wrote:</div> 
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                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">But only if <em>-gluth/-gloth</em> is, in fact, an instance of the lexeme CLEDH.<br /> 
                                Jon</span></span><br /> 
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                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">----- Original Message -----</span></span> </span></span></div> 
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                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">From: Daniel Prohaska</span></span> </span></span></div> 
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                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Sent: 05/15/12 02:15 PM</span></span> </span></span></div> 
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                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">To: Standard Cornish discussion list</span></span> </span></span></div> 
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                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Is there a future for the SWF?</span></span> </span></span></div> 
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                                                        <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Thanks, Craif, very helpful, keep 'em coming!!!</span></span></div> 
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                                                        <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">This indeed points towards a front rounded vowel for earlier Middle Cornish. Of course the tendency would be to unround at a comparatively early date as the word occurs in the unstressed second element. The lexeme would have retained the rounding longer, yet the earliest textual attestation is from 1611, in CW ‹<i>cleath</i>›. </span></span></div> 
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                                                        <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Dan </span></span></div> 
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                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">On May 15, 2012, at 2:02 PM, Craig Weatherhill wrote:</span></span></div> 
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                                                                        <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">CARGLOTH:  Carglodan 1375;  Cargluthan 1432;  Carglothe 1590;  Carglith 1748.  ker + cledh (dim. form). </span></span> 
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                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">BOLSTER BANK: Cleuth 1602;  Cleath, Clay 1733;  Kleth 1740;  Cleath, Kleth 1778.</span></span></div> 
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                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">(MENGLETH, "quarry")</span></span></div> 
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                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">PIT'S MINGLE:  (no available historic forms)</span></span></div> 
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                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Maengluthion 1320 (Roche - lost place-name)</span></span></div> 
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                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Pengluthio 1575 (Ladock - lost place-name.  Questionable if this is a pl. form of *mengleth)</span></span></div> 
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                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">(MONGLETH, "open-cast mine")</span></span></div> 
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                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">MONGLEATH:  Mungluth 1308, 1350, 1530;  Mongluthe 1313;  Mungleath, Mungloeth 1316;  Moungleth 1460;  Monglyth 1480;  Monglegh 1499;  Munglyth 1523;  Mongler 1590;  Mungleth 1623;  Monglar 1766;  Munglar 1804.</span></span></div> 
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                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">TRUNGLE:  Trevonglet 1283;  Trevongluth 1302;  Trevengloth 1313;  Trevingluth 1317;  Trevungleith 1322;  Trewonglyth 1395;  Trewoyngluth 1428;  Trevonglyth 1429, 1668;  Trevounglethe 1561;  Trevongleth, Treungle 1600, 1668;  Treungle 1634 (+ tre-)</span></span></div> 
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                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">(NB. Late dropping of -th in both names)</span></span></div> 
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                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Craig</span></span></div> 
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                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">On 15 Me 2012, at 11:22, Jon Mills wrote:</span></span></div> 
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                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">How can one be sure that the element <em>-gloth</em> in <em>Cargloth</em> is the lexeme CLEDH?<br /> 
                                                                                                Jon</span></span></span></span><br /> 
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                                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Dan writes,</span></span> </span></span></div> 
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                                                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Here are the attestations:</span></span> </span></span></div> 
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                                                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span style="font-size: 10pt">cleath</span></i><span style="font-size: 10pt"> (CW), <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">klêdh</i> (Lh), <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">cledh</i> (Pr); (<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">pl</i>.)</span><i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span style="font-size: 10pt"> kledhioụ </span></i><span style="font-size: 10pt">(Lh), <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">cledhiou</i></span><span style="font-size: 10pt"> (Pr);</span> </span></span></span></span></div> 
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                                                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"> </span></span> </span></span></div> 
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                                                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10pt">While there is no *<i>cluth</i>, *<i>cloth</i>, *<i>clueth</i> or *<i>clevth</i> which would point towards a front rounded vowel, the attestations clearly go back to the full grade </span>*/klœð/ root (B <i>kleuz</i>, W <i>clawdd</i>) as there is no reason for a i-mutated /klað/. </span></span> </span></span></div> 
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                                                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"> </span></span> </span></span></div> 
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                                                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10pt">There is also the place name <i>Cargloth</i> where the second element does show a rounded vowel. Since all the textual attestations here are rather late it is not surprising that they would show */œ/ in its unrounded reflex. But since there's also the place name and I should agree with Craig that (critically examined) place names are highly relevant to the reconstruction of Cornish forms, we do have grounds to reconstruct </span>*/klœð/, hence SWFt ‹<b>cleudh</b>›. I should say ‹<b>cleudh</b>› is correct. </span></span> </span></span></div> 
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                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px">_____________________________________ <br /> 
                                                                                                Dr. Jon Mills, <br /> 
                                                                                                University of Kent</span></span></span></span> _______________________________________________<br /> 
                                                                                                Spellyans mailing list<br /> 
                                                                                                <a href="mailto:Spellyans@kernowek.net">Spellyans@kernowek.net</a><br /> 
                                                                                                <a href="http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net">http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net</a> </span></span></blockquote> 
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                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">_______________________________________________<br /> 
                                                                Spellyans mailing list<br /> 
                                                                <a href="mailto:Spellyans@kernowek.net">Spellyans@kernowek.net</a><br /> 
                                                                <a href="http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net">http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net</a> </span></span></blockquote> 
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                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px">_____________________________________ <br /> 
                                Dr. Jon Mills, <br /> 
                                University of Kent</span></span></span></span> _______________________________________________<br /> 
                                Spellyans mailing list<br /> 
                                <a href="mailto:Spellyans@kernowek.net">Spellyans@kernowek.net</a><br /> 
                                http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net</blockquote> 
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<span id="editor_signature"><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px">_____________________________________ <br /> 
Dr. Jon Mills, <br /> 
University of Kent</span></span></span></span>