<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>But Jon, we could question every other attestation on the same ground. At some point we have to say with the available evidence, that it's very, very, very, very likely this is an instance of our */klœːð/ and if proof comes to light later on that it isn't well then so be it, make the necessary adjustments. </div><div>Dan</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On May 15, 2012, at 3:26 PM, Jon Mills wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:12px">But only if <em>-gluth/-gloth</em> is, in fact, an instance of the lexeme CLEDH.<br> 
Jon<br> 
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                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">----- Original Message -----</span></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "> 
                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">From: Daniel Prohaska</span></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "> 
                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Sent: 05/15/12 02:15 PM</span></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "> 
                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">To: Standard Cornish discussion list</span></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; "> 
                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Subject: Re: [Spellyans] Is there a future for the SWF?</span></span></div> 
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                        Thanks, Craif, very helpful, keep 'em coming!!!</div> 
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                        This indeed points towards a front rounded vowel for earlier Middle Cornish. Of course the tendency would be to unround at a comparatively early date as the word occurs in the unstressed second element. The lexeme would have retained the rounding longer, yet the earliest textual attestation is from 1611, in CW ‹<i>cleath</i>›. </div> 
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                        Dan </div> 
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                                On May 15, 2012, at 2:02 PM, Craig Weatherhill wrote:</div> 
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                                        CARGLOTH:  Carglodan 1375;  Cargluthan 1432;  Carglothe 1590;  Carglith 1748.  ker + cledh (dim. form). 
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                                                BOLSTER BANK: Cleuth 1602;  Cleath, Clay 1733;  Kleth 1740;  Cleath, Kleth 1778.</div> 
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                                                (MENGLETH, "quarry")</div> 
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                                                PIT'S MINGLE:  (no available historic forms)</div> 
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                                                Maengluthion 1320 (Roche - lost place-name)</div> 
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                                                Pengluthio 1575 (Ladock - lost place-name.  Questionable if this is a pl. form of *mengleth)</div> 
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                                                (MONGLETH, "open-cast mine")</div> 
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                                                MONGLEATH:  Mungluth 1308, 1350, 1530;  Mongluthe 1313;  Mungleath, Mungloeth 1316;  Moungleth 1460;  Monglyth 1480;  Monglegh 1499;  Munglyth 1523;  Mongler 1590;  Mungleth 1623;  Monglar 1766;  Munglar 1804.</div> 
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                                                TRUNGLE:  Trevonglet 1283;  Trevongluth 1302;  Trevengloth 1313;  Trevingluth 1317;  Trevungleith 1322;  Trewonglyth 1395;  Trewoyngluth 1428;  Trevonglyth 1429, 1668;  Trevounglethe 1561;  Trevongleth, Treungle 1600, 1668;  Treungle 1634 (+ tre-)</div> 
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                                                (NB. Late dropping of -th in both names)</div> 
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                                                Craig</div> 
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                                                                On 15 Me 2012, at 11:22, Jon Mills wrote:</div> 
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                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">How can one be sure that the element <em>-gloth</em> in <em>Cargloth</em> is the lexeme CLEDH?<br> 
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                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Dan writes,</span></span></div> 
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                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Here are the attestations:</span></span></div> 
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                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span style="font-size: 10pt">cleath</span></i><span style="font-size: 10pt"> (CW), <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">klêdh</i> (Lh), <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">cledh</i> (Pr); (<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">pl</i>.)</span><i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><span style="font-size: 10pt"> kledhioụ </span></i><span style="font-size: 10pt">(Lh), <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">cledhiou</i></span><span style="font-size: 10pt"> (Pr);</span> </span></span></div> 
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                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10pt">While there is no *<i>cluth</i>, *<i>cloth</i>, *<i>clueth</i> or *<i>clevth</i> which would point towards a front rounded vowel, the attestations clearly go back to the full grade </span>*/klœð/ root (B <i>kleuz</i>, W <i>clawdd</i>) as there is no reason for a i-mutated /klað/. </span></span></div> 
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                                                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-size: 10pt">There is also the place name <i>Cargloth</i> where the second element does show a rounded vowel. Since all the textual attestations here are rather late it is not surprising that they would show */œ/ in its unrounded reflex. But since there's also the place name and I should agree with Craig that (critically examined) place names are highly relevant to the reconstruction of Cornish forms, we do have grounds to reconstruct </span>*/klœð/, hence SWFt ‹<b>cleudh</b>›. I should say ‹<b>cleudh</b>› is correct. </span></span></div> 
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                                                                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px">_____________________________________ <br> 
                                                                Dr. Jon Mills, <br> 
                                                                University of Kent</span></span></span></span> _______________________________________________<br> 
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<span id="editor_signature"><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px">_____________________________________ <br> 
Dr. Jon Mills, <br> 
University of Kent</span></span></span></span>
_______________________________________________<br>Spellyans mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Spellyans@kernowek.net">Spellyans@kernowek.net</a><br>http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net<br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>