<span style='font-family:Verdana'><span style='font-size:12px'><span style="color: #000000">Dear Jenefer,<br /> 
If, as you say, "<font face="Arial" size="2">the point with the glossary is not orthography", then why is it in only one version of the SWF. A decision must have been made not to provide the traditional forms. That decision concerns orthography. You say that "<font face="Arial" size="2">The point with the SWF is to provide a neutral spelling for official use.</font>" But the spelling chosen for the SWF Glossary is not neutral. It derogates against those who prefer tradtional forms. You also write, "<font face="Arial" size="2">It does not mean and never has, that other orthographies are not supported.</font>" So how precisely do you intend to support other orthographies?<br /> 
Yours sincerely,<br /> 
Jon Mills </font></span><font color="#000080" face="Arial" size="2"> <span style="display: none"> then whythetYagainst those who prefertraditional forms.</span></font><br /> 
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                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">----- Original Message -----</span></span></p> 
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                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">From: Lowe Jenefer</span></span></p> 
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                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Sent: 08/09/12 08:34 AM</span></span></p> 
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                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">To: Standard Cornish discussion list</span></span></p> 
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                <span style="font-family: Verdana"><span style="font-size: 12px">Subject: Re: [Spellyans] SWF (t) and Maga web site</span></span></p> 
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                                <font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="color: navy; font-size: 10pt">Ray, </span></font></p> 
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                                <font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="color: navy; font-size: 10pt">I have absolutely no problem with a page on the website showing different orthographies – it’s a very good idea. The choice has always been with the individual and outside official use and education we work with all orthographies and are happy to explain the various systems of spelling – in fact I thought we had a page on that already. The point with the glossary is not orthography – the glossary has been updated, extended and superseded by the dictionary and that is why the glossary has been removed.  The spec, the paper I have just sent round and a page on other orthographies are still there as far as I am aware.  The website is due for a review later this month – there are a number of things we need to update or want to refresh and haven’t had the time to do – and we can look at this then and amend or update nas required. The point with the SWF is to provide a neutral spelling for official use. It does not mean and never has, that other orthographies are not supported. </span></font></p> 
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                                <font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="color: navy; font-size: 10pt">What I am not prepared to do is make unilateral decisions about the SWF that go against the agreement and spec, as that would open the door for everyone on all sides to do the same. We have established that there will be a review and that is the proper way to look at the agreement and make any changes. We will then uphold and implement whatever comes out of the review. </span></font></p> 
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                                        <b><font color="blue" face="Verdana" size="2"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold">Jenefer Lowe </span></font></b></p> 
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                                        <b><font color="blue" face="Verdana" size="2"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold">Development Manager /<i><span style="font-style: italic"> </span></i>Dyghtyer displegya </span></font></b></p> 
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                                        <b><font color="blue" face="Verdana" size="2"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold">tel: / pell<i><span style="font-style: italic">:</span></i> 01872 323465 </span></font></b></p> 
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                                        <b><font color="blue" face="Verdana" size="2"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold">email / ebost: </span></font></b><a href="mailto:jlowe@cornwall.gov.uk" title="mailto:jlowe@cornwall.gov.uk"><b><font face="Verdana"><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold">jlowe@cornwall.gov.uk</span></font></b></a><b><font color="blue" face="Verdana"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-weight: bold"> </span></font></b></p> 
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                                        <b><font color="blue" face="Verdana" size="2"><span style="font-family: Verdana; color: blue; font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold">The Cornish Language Partnership is funded by the Department for Communities and Local Government and <span><span>Cornwall</span></span> Council. </span></font></b></p> 
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                                        <b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt"> spellyans-bounces@kernowek.net [mailto:spellyans-bounces@kernowek.net] <b><span style="font-weight: bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Ray Chubb<br /> 
                                        <b><span style="font-weight: bold">Sent:</span></b> 07 August 2012 11:29<br /> 
                                        <b><span style="font-weight: bold">To:</span></b> Standard Cornish discussion list<br /> 
                                        <b><span style="font-weight: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Spellyans] SWF (t) and Maga web site</span></font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 12pt"> </span></font></p> 
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                                <font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Jenefer, I think you are beginning to sound like a gramophone record stuck in the grove. </span></font></p> 
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                                        <font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">We all know what the Treyarnon agreement was, the point that I have been making on this forum is that the Partnership is a public body representing Cornish and the whole of the Cornish language movement but since the removal of the SWF (t) glossary from the web site there is no indication at all of what native Cornish looks like.  The (t) glossary was in fact a very poor indication of traditional spelling but at least it was something. </span></font></p> 
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                                        <font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">How can the Partnership accept public money when it represents only those who think that it is O.K. to tinker wholesale with native forms of Cornish? </span></font></p> 
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                                        <font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">I shall certainly be making representations at the next Partnership meeting to have a page on the web site dedicated to show what various orthographies look like including those of native writers.  If I am outvoted as I usually am by the politicians on the Partnership, (including the ones who speak Cornish) I shall take the matter up with Cornwall Councillors. </span></font></p> 
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                                                        <font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">On 7 Est 2012, at 10:00, Lowe Jenefer wrote: </span></font></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt">Dear all, </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">I am away working at an event in <span><span>Brittany</span></span> at the moment and therefore only infrequently checking email.  However, I feel I must just set the record straight. My position and that of MAGA is to work to the agreements made unless and until those change in any way, via the review. I have sent out the attached document, produced by the AHG as part of the agreement and spec, many times, but it continues to be ignored. It has always also been available on the website along with the spec. It sets out clearly what was agreed on variants and on traditional graphs and it is that agreement to which we adhere. The agreement put traditional graphs in place for those who wish to use them, but was emphatic that this did not create another 'form' - it wasn't a case of use all or nothing of the traditional graphs. I think the paper makes the position at the moment absolutely clear. That is why we are not looking at a dictionary with traditional forms but explaining the alternatives available within the one dictionary. The online dictionary will enable searches for traditional graph spellings and should be available, once a couple of technical issues are resolved. </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">We are very happy to accept traditional graphs in use - in newsletter articles for example, but it was never the case that they would be used officially and we have to stick to the agreements made. </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Michael is right - SWF is not KK, the basis is different and we do need to keep aesthetic and linguistic points apart. This is exactly why the agreement at Treyarnon separated out the linguistic variants catered for by the Middle and Late variants from the aesthetic considerations represented by the traditional graphs. Trond was very clear on this point and right to be so.  That is why he originally termed the traditional graphs 'side forms' - meaning they exist beside and along with the official forms. </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">And Michael - once again the initial information on the conference is available in the latest newsletter you have received. Full information will go out as soon as the details of venue are confirmed. </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="color: black; font-size: 11pt">I may not be online again for a day or two but hope that this will help to explain why we take the stance we do in support of the agreement as made. </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font color="black" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="color: black; font-size: 11pt">Yn lel, </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Jenefer Lowe </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Development Manager / Dyghtyer displegya </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Cornish Language Partnership / Keskowethyans an Taves Kernewek </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">TR1 3AY </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">tel: / pell: 01872 323465 </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">email / ebost: <a href="mailto:jlowe@cornwall.gov.uk">jlowe@cornwall.gov.uk</a> </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">website / gwiasva : <a href="http://www.magakernow.org.uk">www.magakernow.org.uk</a>  </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Gwrewgh agan sewya der Twitter! </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">@magakernow </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Gwrewgh agan kavos der Facebook!  Find us on Facebook! </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt"><a href="http://www.facebook.com/magakernow">www.facebook.com/magakernow</a> </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">The Cornish Language Partnership is funded by the Department for Communities and Local Government and Cornwall Council. </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Arhesans Keskowethyans an Taves Kernewek yw provies gans an Asran rag Kemenethow ha Governans Leel, ha Konsel Kernow </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">-----Original Message----- </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">From: spellyans-bounces@kernowek.net [<a href="mailto:spellyans-bounces@kernowek.net">mailto:spellyans-bounces@kernowek.net</a>] On Behalf Of Daniel Prohaska </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Sent: 05 August 2012 16:05 </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">To: Standard Cornish discussion list </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Subject: Re: [Spellyans] SWF (t) and Maga web site </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">I can't remember. It's likely I wrote to Jenefer or Elizabeth about it. </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Dan </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">On Aug 5, 2012, at 3:33 PM, Michael Everson wrote: </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">> On 5 Aug 2012, at 14:27, Daniel Prohaska wrote: </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">>> I have offered to make a SWF/t version of the dictionary and my offer has simply been ignored… </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">> Who was it who ignored it? </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">> Michael Everson * <a href="http://www.evertype.com/">http://www.evertype.com/</a> </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">> _______________________________________________ </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">> Spellyans mailing list </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">> <a href="mailto:Spellyans@kernowek.net">Spellyans@kernowek.net</a> </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                        <span><span><span><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 11pt">> <a href="http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net">http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net</a> </span></font></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                                                <span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><font color="black" face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; color: black; font-size: 9pt">Kernow </span></font></span></span></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                                        <p style="margin:0px; padding:0px;" > 
                                                                                <span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><font color="black" face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; color: black; font-size: 9pt"> </span></font></span></span></span></span></span></p> 
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                                                                <p class="MsoNormal"> 
                                                                        <span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><font color="black" face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; color: black; font-size: 9pt">Agan Tavas web site:  <a href="http://www.agantavas.com">www.agantavas.com</a></span></font></span></span></span></span></span><br /> 
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                                        <span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><span style="widows: 2; orphans: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></span></span></span></span></span></p> 
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<span id="editor_signature"><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px">_____________________________________ <br /> 
Dr. Jon Mills, <br /> 
University of Kent</span></span></span></span>