<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Yes we abstained on the vote to adopt the draft report from the SWF Review Board at the Partnership meeting before last.<div><br></div><div>I explained at the last meeting that we had done this because, as seems usual now for reports from the Partnership, it was dropped on us at the last minute before we had had to time to consider it. I also reported on the decision taken at our AGM to recommend to the Review Board that no changes should be made to the SWF as it currently stands. (Except for the Late variant.)</div><div><br><div><div>On 26 Mer 2014, at 17:45, Clive Baker wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><p>Checked with Ray Craig, apparently, we abstained at the partnership meeting... He says he will add a comment here. It is on our next agenda for discussion</p> <div class="gmail_quote">On Mar 26, 2014 2:45 PM, "Craig Weatherhill" <<a href="mailto:craig@agantavas.org">craig@agantavas.org</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div style="word-wrap:break-word">That very thing concerned me from the outset. Just like Treyarnon, linguists were pointedly frozen out. Nicholas Williams AND Ken George should have been on both panels.<div><br></div><div> Craig</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On 2014 Mer 26, at 13:41, Jon Mills wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:12px"><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px"> That this issue and presumably other issues were "not understood by a majority of the Review Board" is of particular concern. It is surely a reasonable expectation that those appointed to the Review Board were done so on the understanding that they have sufficient expertise for the task in hand.</div> <div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px">Ol an gwella,</div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px"> Jon</div><p style="margin:0px;padding:0px"> </p><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 5px;padding-left:5px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" type="cite"><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px"> <span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:12px">----- Original Message -----</span></span></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px"> <span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:12px">From: Daniel Prohaska</span></span></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px"> <span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:12px">Sent: 03/26/14 01:07 PM</span></span></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px"> <span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:12px">To: Standard Cornish discussion list</span></span></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px"> <span style="font-family:Verdana"><span style="font-size:12px">Subject: Re: [Spellyans] SWF review results.</span></span></div> <div><div>I find that the inability to reach a solution for distinguishing short /ɔ/ (e.g. ‹<b><i>bronn</i></b> ~ <b><i>brodn</i></b>› 'breast, hill'; ‹<b><i>toll</i></b>› 'hole') from short /ʊ/ (e.g. ‹<b><i>bronn</i></b> ~ <b><i>brodn</i></b>› 'rushes'; ‹<b><i>toll</i></b>› 'deceit, fraud') to be the biggest phonological shortcoming of the SWF. I've said this since day one of the SWF and had hoped that this problem would be tackled in the Review. It hasn't. This goes against one of the fundamental principles of the SWF, to ensure that there should be a minimum amount of change for the maximum section of the Cornish users. Since all Cornish spelling systems have a way of distinguishing the two (Jenner ‹<b><i>o</i></b>› : ‹<b><i>u</i></b>›; UC/R ‹<b><i>o</i></b>› : ‹<b><i>u</i></b>›; KK ‹<b><i>o</i></b>› : ‹<b><i>oe</i></b>›; KS ‹<b><i>o</i></b>› : ‹<b><i>ù</i></b>›) this is an important change for ALL Cornish users. according to reports the issue at had was not understood by a majority of the Review Board, and thus this unfortunate ambiguity remains unchanged in the SWF. Very unfortunate indeed.</div> <div> </div><div>Dan</div><div> </div> <div><div>On Mar 26, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Clive Baker wrote:</div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px"> Well said Christian...I ,as the recently elected chairman of Agan Tavas, agree with you entirely...<br>Clive Baker</div><div class="gmail_quote">On Mar 26, 2014 10:42 AM, "Christian Semmens" <<a href="mailto:christian.semmens@gmail.com" target="_blank">christian.semmens@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote"> <div>I not sure a hands off policy will work. Really I think Jon has hit the nail on the head. It is time to rock the boat. A simple rejection of the SWF in its proposed form, by Agan Tavas, would suffice to put the cat amongst the pigeons. You wouldn't have to say never, just to say that the SWF is an unacceptable orthography because of x, y and z. The SWF only has relevance if it is a consensus orthography. Unfortunately without parity for traditional graphs and the move towards consolidation of the KK aspects, it fails to be of any utility for those of us who would wish to use a traditional orthography.<div> </div><div>If it is allowed to continue without immediate and explicit challenge than the only outcome in the medium term (the next twenty years) is Jon's option 1. Traditional orthographies will be a splintered hobbyist way of spelling Cornish and the mainstream will use the KK form. We will have failed utterly. Waiting for people to see the light will not work. What is academically acceptable is irrelevant in this scenario. It is the 'boots on the ground' that count</div> <div><div> </div><div>If, as I suspect, very few others here *want* to use it in its current form, then that needs to be flagged up. I simply won't use it and I know there are at lest a few more people here that feel that way too. We need a larger group to represent our position and to fight for a traditional orthography. Otherwise we are easily dismissed individually as malcontents. Perhaps you could poll your members and see what their feelings are? That would be interesting.</div> <div> </div><div>It may be that they are in favour of capitulation, in which case I won't stress over it any more and will visit the grave of traditional Cornish every time I come home whilst trying not to look at the hideous caricature of Cornish daubed on the road signs.</div> </div><div> </div><div>Christian</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 25 March 2014 14:37, Ray Chubb <span><<a href="mailto:ray@spyrys.org" target="_blank">ray@spyrys.org</a>></span> wrote:<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote"> The official Agan Tavas position as adopted at the AGM is that, apart from changes that Late Cornish users find desirable and the issue of diacritical marks, the SWF should be left as it is.<br><br>This decision is on the basis that the changes proposed are very few and tend to make the SWF less authentic than it already is.<br> <br>It was suggested at our committee meeting today that another 5 years should elapse before changes are made. Hopefully in 5 years time people will be able to look at it in a rational and scholarly way and leave behind any baggage that they are carrying from the past.<div> <div><br><br>On 24 Mer 2014, at 21:53, Craig Weatherhill wrote:<br> <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" class="gmail_quote"> I managed to get these today. Many items are "no change", so I've singled out those in which a change was decided upon. The below is given in SWF/M for convenience, but the status of Traditional graphs remain unaltered.<br> <br>DOUBLE CONSONANT SPELLINGS.<br>1. Introduce <ll> and <rr> in roots. Do not revert to single letter in unstressed non-final syllables where that changes the root.<br>2. Introduce <ll> for <dell>, <-ell> for the suffix which implies 'tool' or 'device', e.g., dewynnell, draylell, gwariell, hornell, karrigell, musurell, pibell, rostell, skitell, skubell, skwychell, tempredhell, torgentrell, yeynell.<br> <br>SHORT <o> and <u><br>1. Change to <o> in <arlodh>, in line with <toll>, <tomm>, <boka>, <bronn>, <koska><br><br><GH> and <H><br>1. <gh> everywhere except word-initially.<br> <br>PARTICLE <th> in SWF/L<br>1. Join particle with verb as in <thera>, without a gap.<br><br>PARTICLE (ow>- RLC VARIANT <o><br>1. Retain <o> (present participle), but drop the apostrophe.<br><br> <NOWYTH><br>1. To be respelt <nowydh> (M), or <nowedh>.<br><br>HYPHENS<br>1. Remove hyphens from numbers, particles and some other words, e.g. <ebost>.<br>2. Add hyphens in loose compounds of the form 'noun + verbal noun', e.g. <jynn-skrifa>, <skath-wolya>, etc.<br> 3. <poslev/poslevow> to replace <poos-lev/poos-levow>.<br>4. <erbynn> to replace <er-bynn>.<br>(but personal use to remain optional).<br><br>VOWEL LENGTH IN MONOSYLLABIC LOAN WORDS ENDING -p OR -t.<br> 1. To be written as <pp>, <tt> if they contain a short vowel.<br>2. Accept both permissible plural endings, e.g. <hattys/hattow><br><br>DHYWORTH/DYWORTH<br>1. Accept <dhyworth> and <dyworth> as alternatives, and <dhort> and <dort> in RLC variants.<br> <br>A/OA ALTERNATION<br>1. Remove RLC variants <toal>, <kloav>, <gwoav>, <gwloan>, spelling them only with -a-.<br>2. Add <boas>, <doas>, <moas> in RLC variants to the remaining <broas>.<br> <br><OO> for KK <OE><br>1. <goolan> to become <golan>. Otherwise, no change.<br><br><kk> AND <ck><br>1. <ck> to be used in all borrowings; <kk> in all other cases, including those in doubt.<br> 2. <okkupya> to be respelt <okupya>.<br><br>APOSTROPHES IN RLC VARIANTS<br>1. Retain before nouns like <'manyn>.<br>2. Do not use elsewhere where the beginning of a word has been shed, e.g. <skydnya> from <dyskynna>.<br> 3. Do not use internally, e.g. <metern> from <myghtern> and <mos> from <mowes>.<br>4. Do not use after <kal> (KK <kalgh>).<br>5. May be used where -th, -dh is dropped, e.g. pro', for', warbar'. To be left to the discretion of individual writers.<br> <br><eu><br>1. Add SWF/L <enkladhva>, SWF/M <ynkladhva> (presently SWF <ynkleudhva>).<br>2. Allow <teudhi and <tedha> as alternative spellings.<br>3. Add to SWF/L <bidhi> (currently <beudhi> only); and <briji> (currently <breuji> in SWF/L).<br> No change to <breusi>, <Meurth>, <feusik>.<br><br>GWR & GR (SWF/L VARIANT)<br>1. Write <gwr-> in RMC and RLC, inclusing <gwra>, <gwruthyl>.<br><br>GEMINATION & PROVECTION IN SUPERLATIVES/SUBJUNCTIVES<br> 1. Retain <tth>, introduce corresponding <ggh>, <cch>, <ssh>.<br><br>WORTIWEDH, ETC.<br>1. <wortiwedh/wostiwedh> and <wostalleth/wortalleth> to be single words, without apostrophes.<br> <br>1ST PERSON SINGULAR<br>1 RC variant <me>, <ve>, no longer required.<br><br><br>Craig<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Spellyans mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Spellyans@kernowek.net" target="_blank">Spellyans@kernowek.net</a><br> <a href="http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net" target="_blank">http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net</a></blockquote></div></div> Ray Chubb<br><br>Portreth<br>Kernow<div><div><br> <br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Spellyans mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Spellyans@kernowek.net" target="_blank">Spellyans@kernowek.net</a><br><a href="http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net" target="_blank">http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net</a></div> </div></blockquote></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Spellyans mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Spellyans@kernowek.net" target="_blank">Spellyans@kernowek.net</a><br><a href="http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net" target="_blank">http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net</a><br> </blockquote></div>_______________________________________________<br>Spellyans mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Spellyans@kernowek.net" target="_blank">Spellyans@kernowek.net</a><br><a href="http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net" target="_blank">http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net</a></blockquote> </div></div></blockquote><p style="margin:0px;padding:0px"> </p><br><br><br><span><span style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:12px">_____________________________________ <br>Dr. Jon Mills, <br>University of Kent<br><a href="http://kent.academia.edu/JonMills" target="_blank">http://kent.academia.edu/JonMills</a></span></span></span></span> _______________________________________________<br>Spellyans mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Spellyans@kernowek.net" target="_blank">Spellyans@kernowek.net</a><br><a href="http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net" target="_blank">http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net</a><br> </blockquote></div><br></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br> Spellyans mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:Spellyans@kernowek.net">Spellyans@kernowek.net</a><br> <a href="http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net" target="_blank">http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net</a><br> <br></blockquote></div> _______________________________________________<br>Spellyans mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Spellyans@kernowek.net">Spellyans@kernowek.net</a><br>http://kernowek.net/mailman/listinfo/spellyans_kernowek.net<br></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div>Ray Chubb</div><div><br></div><div>Portreth</div><div>Kernow</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></span>Agan Tavas web site: <a href="http://www.agantavas.com">www.agantavas.com</a><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span></div></span></div></span> </div><br></div></body></html>