[Spellyans] KK ha'n SWF - pronunciation

Harry Fraiser harryfraiser at googlemail.com
Fri Aug 8 15:50:07 BST 2008

Splendid suggestion from Penny. Nicholas would be the man to show us
how to pronounce half-long and long correctly.


On 8/8/08, nicholas williams <njawilliams at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ken has no half-length and no long consonants. These are the sine-qua-
> non of KK.
> Without them there is no KK. KK is just a new (non-traditional and non-
> phonemic) spelling .
> The differences you mention are marginal. They do not affect his
> pronunciation which is UC.
> Ken George speeks Unified Cornish.
> Nicholas Williams
> On 8 Aug 2008, at 13:57, Penny Squire wrote:
>> Nicholas
>> You said     "... if KK is so good, why does Ken not actually speak
>> it, rather than a rather anglicised Unified?"
>> I wouldn't actually agree with this. As I have said before,  I don't
>> do linguistics but there is nothing wrong with my hearing.
>> Although my attendance at Cornish language events is rather hit-and-
>> miss because I spend so much time working away, over the last few
>> years I have  listened to as much live spoken Cornish as possible. I
>> have been to several Cornish Language Weekends, Cornish language
>> church services and the Gorsedd/Gorseth/Gorsedh (!). I have  also
>> have managed to lay my hands on some recordings of people who use
>> KK, UC and LC.
>> Ken George's spoken Cornish certainly has several differences from
>> that of Unifed users that I have heard. He pronounces <eu> in words
>> like bleujenn where UC users say blejen, for example, and
>> distinguishes the KK <o> and <oe> sounds where they don't because UC
>> only has <o>.  He doesn't pronounce  'res' as if it were English
>> 'raise' (which can't be right, surely, but all UC users say it) .
>> His <a> doesn't sound right to me, though, here he sounds like the
>> UC users who say it as in English 'far'  (and RP 'father') instead
>> of as in English 'barrow' which is the recommended KK pronunciation..
>> It may be influence from Breton - his wife is Breton and I believe
>> that they often speak together in Breton.
>> In contrast, I have somewhere a copy of Rod Lyon and Julia Allard's
>> 'Flows ha Furneth', a collection of humerous pieces. It is very
>> lively and amusing and they speak Cornish very fluently and
>> naturally, but their pronunciation is modern day English with a
>> Cornish accent. Vanessa Beaman's Cornish is RP, but the Cornish
>> heard in the Gorsedd ceremony usually sounds horribly English.
>> It would be very helpful if those who disagree with the
>> pronunciation of X or Y were to produce some recordings showing how
>> they believe that Cornish should be pronounced. LC users could read
>> Dzhuan Choy an Hor, and MC users could read a couple of hundred
>> words from CW or something. Didn't someone suggest something similar
>> on Cornwall 24 once upon a time?
>> Perhaps, Nicholas, you and Michael could get the ball rolling with
>> some MC recordings and perhaps Dan could give us his ideas on LC?
>> It would at least give those of us who are bored with the endless
>> 'I'm right and you are wrong' arguments over arcane linguistic
>> arguments and IPA squiggles a chance to hear what the different
>> ideas sound like in practice.
>> Penny
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