[Spellyans] loan words

Craig Weatherhill craig at agantavas.org
Wed Feb 23 19:11:42 GMT 2011

I'd have thought that if remembra, ryver, etc. are recommended to be  
accepted as Cornish; then ffagl must be accepted as Welsh, regardless  
of origin.


On 23 Whe 2011, at 18:49, Eddie Climo wrote:

> On 2011 Whe 23, at 18:05, Michael Everson wrote:
>> On 23 Feb 2011, at 17:42, Eddie Climo wrote:
>>> Sure—not native Cornish, but native Brythonic.
>> Welsh ffagl is borrowed from Latin facula 'little torch, splinter  
>> used as a torch', a diminutive of fax 'fire', from the proto-Indo- 
>> European root *bhā- 'to shine'.
>> As a borrowing from Latin, the word cannot be called "native  
>> Brythonic".
>  Cognate, very likely, but 'borrowing'? Prove it! In any case, it  
> scarcely matters a jot, tittle or iota. Even if borrowed from Latin,  
> the lexeme has had some one and a half thousand years to become a  
> naturalised, Brythonic 'citizen'.
>>> It's a pity that some other Cornish lexicographers have not  
>>> matched Nance's high standard of scholarship. With some of them,  
>>> you get no help whatsoever in distinguishing the historical from  
>>> the neologistic — what's actually used in RC from what the  
>>> lexicographer thinks they ought to use. You're just left guessing  
>>> as to whether, say, St. Meryasek or Noah or JC (or merely the  
>>> lexicographer) ever found himself "up shit creek without a paddle"!
>>> Let us hope that any future dictionaries in 'Kernewek Gwyr' strive  
>>> for better than that.
>> Is it *really* necessary, Eddie, for you to snipe at Nicholas  
>> because the URC dictionary does not mark this distinction? Or to  
>> imply that he is a poorer scholar than Nance because the choice  
>> *not* to mark those words was taken?
> I didn't mention Nicholas or your UCR dictionary—a valuable work,  
> even though flawed in its design. Do you feel the cap fits him? Mind  
> you, Nicholas (and you) feel quite at liberty to stand on the  
> shoulders of Nance and others of his generation in order to kick  
> them in the teeth, by disparaging them as "poor linguists".
> How curious that you resent the perception of receiving similar  
> treatment yourself!
> You might wish to consider acknowledging the debt that you (and the  
> rest of us) owe to the Kernewegoyon of Nance's generation, rather  
> than denigrating their scholarship. Or, of course, you might not,
> Ny vern ha nyns us fors.
> Eddie Foirbeis Climo
> Gwask an Orlewen
> {Dyller yn Kernewek Gwyr}
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Craig Weatherhill

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