[Spellyans] cledh etc

Chris Parkinson brynbow at btinternet.com
Tue Jan 15 15:20:00 GMT 2013

Nicholas, thankyou for your detailed reply. I agree entirely that trying to base LC orthography on English was a mistake which has disheartened many LC learners. I have seen for some time that  MC/LC are on a continuum and it is a false dichotomy to consider them separately. But I definitely think that there are valid differences between spoken and written language which should be taken into account at the early learning stages, especially for young learners. For that reason I'm not sure about some of changes you make in JCH. E.g. 'dhe' + pronoun is simpler than using the conjugated preposition as one word, because a child could easily generalise the pattern. 

However, your book is for adults and that is not the main issue that is worrying.  LC users need an orthography that allows them to write as they speak. Such an orthography would of course allow anyone else to write spoken Cornish as necessary eg in dialogues in novels, or in other informal writing. LC speakers could use a more formal style where appropriate. The choice for us is obviously between SWFL and KS. But if we chose eg to write 'Thera ve mos', or 'Thera ve a mos' would a KS editor demand that it be written 'ow mos'. If we wanted to reflect LC pronunciation by writing eg 'Metten da' would that be disallowed? And so on.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Nicholas Williams 
  To: Standard Cornish discussion list 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 12:13 PM
  Subject: Re: [Spellyans] cledh etc

  Desky Kernowek is a grammar for learners. The editorial decisions were made to assist people learning the language.
  That is quite a different matter from the spelling per se.

  We can in KS write

  yth eson ny
  th'eson ny
  th'eron ny

  The spelling is the same system. 

  We can write
  dhe vy or dhymo vy.

  We don't need to write dhe why because dhywgh why can be pronounced dhe why.

  Incidentally dhe why is already in Middle Cornish:

  fest yn creff me re beghas
  ihesus ze wy ow querze PA 104b and there are many further exx.

  Danen, danon is Late Cornish but is already in PA:

  Thy gour hy a zanonas PA 123a.

  Genama is already in PA:

  te a vyth yn keth golow
  yn paradis genama PA 193c.

  Ve for me is Late Cornish, but is in PA:

  Hag a pe yn della ve
  neffre ny vean fethys PA 73a

  [And if it were, I, never would I be overcome]

  One of the reasons that I dislike the absolute distinction
  made between Middle and Late Cornish is that
  there is no real difference. Many of the features of the later language
  are already in Middle Cornish.

  eran ny for eson ny is in SA
  dhodh'ev is regular as <thotheff> in TH.
  kenyver tra 'everything' is in PA 208c.
  pecar for kepar is in SA 61a.

  The MC/LC distinction is false. Consequently, in my view,
  using an English based spelling for LC rather than a variant of the traditional
  spelling was, I believe, a mistake.


  On 15 Jan 2013, at 11:22, Chris Parkinson wrote:

    I am indeed confused. What is the rationale for such editorial changes which alter the original text?


  Spellyans mailing list
  Spellyans at kernowek.net
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